|  Author | Topic: PROUD FLESH: EOTW (Read 135 times) |
Patcat
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|  | PROUD FLESH: EOTW
« Thread Started on Nov 6, 2009, 9:53am » | |
Will air November 9, 2009 on the USA Network at 3pm(EST). First aired March 12, 2006. Thirteenth episode of Season 5.
Written by Warren Leight and Rene Balcer. Directed by Frank Prinzi
Guest Stars:
Cindy Cheung as Anna Leung-Slaughter
Matthew Morrison as Chance Slaughter
Mark Blum as Professor Larry Lewis
Malcolm McDowell as Jonas Slaughter
Sort of ripped from the headlines: Jonas Slaughter appears based on Rupert Murdoch (owner of several English, Australian and American newspapers, including THE WALL STREET JOURNAL; 20th Century Fox, Fox News and other media outlets) and his marriage to Wendi Deng. Deng married and then divorced a man who help sponsor her arrival in America, and married Murdoch in 1998 seventeen days after Murdoch divorced his wife. The couple now has two daughters, and Murdoch's four children from previous marriages have expressed some concerns about their stepmother's possible control over trust arrangements.
Quotes:
Chinese woman (in Cantonese): "He speaks Cantonese like my little dog." NYPD Translator: "She says you speak Chinese like her..." Goren: "I...I got...I get it." Eames: "So did I."
Lewis: "This story. It's...It's Kafkaesque..." Eames: "That would make you the bug, Larry. You know what I like to do to bugs? I like to watch my partner squash them."
Goren: "Proud now, Mr. Slaughter? Proud now? Your son lies, lies to save your neck." Jonas Slaughter: "That's what sons are for?"
Queries:
In the original discussion of this episode, people didn't seem to hate it, but no one seemed to like it very much. Several (including me) found it confusing. Is it a weak episode? If so, why? What did it lack that a great or good LOCI episode has? What makes a great LOCI episode?
Is the bondage element important to the story or exploitive?
What will happen to Anna and her daughter?
Is Chance's sacrifice believeable? Why does he do it? Will it prevent the revelation of his father's machinations?
What will happen to Chance's wife? What will happen to their child?
Would Jonas have treated Anna differently if they had a son instead of a daughter?
Several people in the original discussion thought Goren didn't like the dominatrix. Is this true? If so, why? He's shown a tolerance for different expressions of sexuality in the past.
So, did Malcolm McDowell and Vincent D'Onofrio talk about working with Stanley Kubrick?
Comments: This is not a great episode. The theme of what sons and fathers owe to each other (always a favorite of Mr. Leight's) gets buried amidst elements of sexual bondage and the Slaughter family dynamics. Why, exactly, is "Trip" Slaughter such a threat to his father that he must be killed? How does Chance Slaughter, the son who appears to have slipped away from his father's influences to become a decent, independent man, become someone who's willing to kill his stepmother and offer himself for sacrifice? Just how paranoid is Jonas Slaughter, and how can he pin all his hopes on an unborn grandchild (what if the child is ill? Is killed? Is a girl, since Mr. Slaughter appears to be a sexist?) This is an LOCI story where one can drive a semi-truck through the plot holes.
The redeeming factors come in the performances. Malcolm McDowell (who was in a bit of an American tour when he appeared in this episode--He also showed up on MONK playing an overbearing, arrogant man heading an empire) is a good enough actor to make Jonas Slaughter almost believable. There's a wonderful easy, relaxed comradery between Goren and Eames that offers a nice contrast to the dark proceedings.
Offered for your comments and appraisals.
Patcat
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Moonbeam
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| | Re: PROUD FLESH: EOTW
« Reply #1 on Nov 6, 2009, 11:13pm » | |
Ranks second behind "View From Up Here" as worst episode ever.
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idget
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| | Re: PROUD FLESH: EOTW
« Reply #2 on Nov 7, 2009, 6:29am » | |
I initially didn't like this episode much either, but on repeated viewing I have grown rather fond of it. Though to me the second worst episode would be Vacancy. Even on repeated viewing all I can do is go ugh. As for Proud Flesh the plot holes did at first annoy me. I wondered why Malcom McDowell's character ever married Anna to begin with if he would never consider a Chinese child his? Did he decide to kill his son because he found out about "buying" Anna for a book deal or because he saw his son's divorce as a disintegration of his "real" family and was hoping this would keep his other son from moving? I never quite understood that. But the things I like and have made this episode worth multiple viewings for me are indeed the wonderful team work, pointed out by Patcat, of Goren and Eames. They seem really insynch in this episode. I also love the interrogation scene of the professor. One of my favorites ever from Eames' bug comment to the SST's. I also love Goren's reaction to the dominatrix, at first I think he is uncomfortable then disgusted then fascinated by her. After she walks away he looks back at her at least 3 times. I love how he conveyed all that in such a short time. I also found it amusing that he knew what to say to her to get her to spill the beans, makes me wonder if he has perhaps studied the subject? 
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maherjunkie
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| | Re: PROUD FLESH: EOTW
« Reply #3 on Nov 7, 2009, 9:24am » | |
I think "View" might even be better. You could set kerosene to most of season 5.
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DonnaJo
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| | Re: PROUD FLESH: EOTW
« Reply #4 on Nov 7, 2009, 9:42am » | |
Moonbeam, I think this episode is actually worst that "View." 
There is really nothing redeeming about this one. OK, Eames rocked. Her "bug" comment was great, along with her snarks about the latex. But that's it.
I didn't like VDO/Goren in this one. There's been speculation about problems in his personal life at that time, and it shows in this episode especially. He was really phoning it in, IMO. Even the whole dominatrix scene was half hearted. Oh, to think how Season 1 or 2 Goren would have acted with her! 
Is the bondage element important to the story or exploitive?
A bit exploitive, but that's OK.
What will happen to Anna and her daughter?
They will move on. I think they will stay in the US - Anna's life in China wasn't a good one.
Is Chance's sacrifice believable? Why does he do it? Will it prevent the revelation of his father's machinations?
Totally unbelievable to me. Not the part of shooting Anna, but the part of sacrificing his life for his father. Unless he didn't realize that he would be shot & killed by Eames? Maybe he thought that he would just be arrested after shooting Anna?
What will happen to Chance's wife? What will happen to their child?
They will live with Jonas and be under his thumb.
Would Jonas have treated Anna differently if they had a son instead of a daughter?
No, I don't believe so.
Several people in the original discussion thought Goren didn't like the dominatrix. Is this true? If so, why? He's shown a tolerance for different expressions of sexuality in the past.
He found her amusing, I think. Both he and Eames have seen worst.
So, did Malcolm McDowell and Vincent D'Onofrio talk about working with Stanley Kubrick?
Definitely.
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jeffan
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| | Re: PROUD FLESH: EOTW
« Reply #5 on Nov 8, 2009, 7:55am » | |
This is neither a good episode nor a bad one – it’s adequate. One of the reasons being that it did have a sense of predictability about it - even though the finger pointed at the young Chinese wife, it was fairly obvious she would not be the murderer – maybe I’ve watched too much Hercule Poirot. To quote Patcat – “This is an LOCI story where one can drive a semi-truck through the plot holes”.
However, I did think the character dynamics were good and, well, Malcolm McDowell adds panache to anything he touches.
Is it a weak episode? If so, why? What did it lack that a great or good LOCI episode has? What makes a great LOCI episode?
Good question. I watched a Logan/Wheeler episode last week, Flipped, and the very ending had me saying out loud in amazement – did that really happen! That makes a great LO:CI episode.
Is the bondage element important to the story or exploitive?
Not exploitative - necessary.
What will happen to Anna and her daughter?
I wasn’t engaged enough with these characters to even want to think about it.
Is Chance's sacrifice believeable? Why does he do it? Will it prevent the revelation of his father's machinations?
Definitely not – it even made me gasp in incredulity.
What will happen to Chance's wife? What will happen to their child?
Agree with Donnajo – live with and be controlled by Jonas.
Would Jonas have treated Anna differently if they had a son instead of a daughter?
No – the prime factor was his wife being Chinese.
Several people in the original discussion thought Goren didn't like the dominatrix. Is this true? If so, why? He's shown a tolerance for different expressions of sexuality in the past.
Goren is a very open-minded man so he would think of dominatrix(ity) as just another act of sexual fulfillment. He wasn’t in the least disturbed in the Seizure episode.
So, did Malcolm McDowell and Vincent D'Onofrio talk about working with Stanley Kubrick?
Probably.
What really didn’t work for me in this episode – and already raised by Idjet - why did he marry his young Chinese wife in the first place? It just didn’t fit with the overall characterization of Jonas.
--------
PS: Really like your new avator Donnajo!
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Patcat
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| | Re: PROUD FLESH: EOTW
« Reply #6 on Nov 10, 2009, 11:04am » | |
A question that came to me--Has Jonas destroyed his empire by his actions? Both of his sons are dead. Jonas appears to have cut ties with his daughter. He has no one to replace him. It will be years before his grandchild is in a postion to even be an heir to his empire. Has Jonas left his empire in an exposed position? What about possible foreign governments and their actions?
And is this episode similar to the superios COLD COMFORT?
Patcat
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maherjunkie
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| | Re: PROUD FLESH: EOTW
« Reply #7 on Nov 10, 2009, 11:21am » | |
I think he will carry on in a third world dictator kind of way, ruling but no real respect. I don't see him being open to any international law.
I don't find similiar to CC, mostly because that episode was COMPETENT.
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