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Post by Sirenna on Apr 3, 2005 21:52:34 GMT -5
Mmm.
;D
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Post by domenicaflor on Apr 3, 2005 21:57:32 GMT -5
Mmm? Mmm good as in yummy, tasty or Mmm don't know? I'm working on a paper for school so I can't stay long: Solid episode. I am enjoying seeing Carver have a greater role both in and out of the office. The Eames and Goren "divide and conquer" approach to Trevor and his wife shows how complementary their skills are as partners. The scene with the blow-up photos of the crime scene house was very interesting as Goren did the replay - very eerie but effective. (Or maybe I am into it because I just saw Michelangelo Antonioni's BLOW-UP last week, LOL) I liked how Goren connected with the troubled young girl. I emotionally would have liked a little more connection, but rationally I realize that after "Suite Sorrow" he has had to pull back from empathizing too much with the victims. His simple comment that she did nothing wrong and that children want to know where they came from spoke volumes. Rachel was troubled by her past in witness protection and perhaps inquisitive of her roots, but she was not a "bad child" and Goren did not want her to blame herself. Eames' comment of "Another cheese?" was a nice shout-out to "Unrequited", and proves that the writers have a good memory and sense of humor. I believe that the actress who played Rachel's birth mother was one of the detectives on Homicide - it's always good to see her again. (Another 6 degrees to D'Onofrio game piece, LOL) Overall - solid. This and "Shibboleth" feel like a return to the quality of writing seen in earlier seasons' eps. That's all I have on one viewing with my mind elsewhere - Later, gators. D.
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Post by Sirenna on Apr 3, 2005 21:59:27 GMT -5
As in mmmm I liked it.
Yummy too but I need to digest before I prose.
later gator (?!)
PS. I gotta test to study for too.
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Post by Patcat on Apr 3, 2005 22:01:04 GMT -5
I think we have two more nominees for our "Worst Villain" category. What evil, awful people, especially Trevor.
That image of Rachel, clutching the ashes of her dead parents, will haunt me.
Patcat
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Post by Summerfield on Apr 3, 2005 22:22:53 GMT -5
"Human polygraph!" I liked seeing Goren smiling and laughing more in this episode. Go ahead and flirt...we love to see you do your thing!
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Post by darmok on Apr 3, 2005 22:36:58 GMT -5
Not as good as last week, but still a solid episode. The last 2-3 have been a little easier to follow. I was glad to see that the daughter wasn't in on it.
Why the blown up photos? They've never done that before. Goren usually just carpets the floor with them.
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Post by Patcat on Apr 4, 2005 5:58:34 GMT -5
I can think of two good reasons for the blown up photos:
It's a strong visual that gives the viewer an idea of how Goren's mind works.
And I believe it is a technique that some investigators are increasingly using.
Patcat
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Post by Metella on Apr 4, 2005 7:27:00 GMT -5
oh, others use it? ok then, as my first thought was - geez - no police budget would allow him to just do that with the pictures. dispite that thought, I did like the visuals.
I didn't like this one - but ONLY because it didn't click anything for me; it was a good solid episode and worthy of being CI. So it was still satisfactory Sunday watching for me.
Good Luck on the tests, dudes.
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Post by LOCIfan on Apr 4, 2005 10:20:06 GMT -5
I liked this episode, but didn't love it. There was an article recently in THE NEW YORKER magazine entitled "The Mistress's Daughter" which seemed to have been the inspiration for the scenario of this episode. The article was fascinating (no murder or witness protection program or anything like that). It was written by an adult adoptee who'd been contacted by her birth mother when she was 30. She ended up meeting both her birth parents and sort of became a pawn in THEIR relationship. Neither of her parents were out to scam her, but they didn't see her as an individual at all - really only saw her as extensions of themselves and their relationship. The mother, especially, projected her fantasies of the ideal mother/daughter relationship they might've had. It was both sad and creepy. Great article, for those interested. It was in the December issue, and I believe the woman who wrote it is working on a book about those experiences.
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Post by falconia on Apr 4, 2005 11:08:15 GMT -5
I've just watched it and I agree with the other comments. It was a very solid episode, with a complicated scheme to defraud the girl and ultimately have her killed. And I liked John Shea as the irresponsible, never grown up baddie, always supported by his wife. Good performance, but I'm a fan.
I understand the concept, but I have a hard time with the idea of Law Enforcement officials being allowed to lie to suspects in order to ellicit a confession or tripping them into admiting a crime. I know it is common practice in the US, but... well... it is difficult for me to wrap my mind around it.
The concept of the plea bargain is also difficult for me to understand, but... well...
The villains were, yes, horrible people, but I wouldn't go so far as to place them in the ten most evil in L&OCI History. IMHO, the one played by Brent Spiner takes the cake, even before Nicole Wallace.
I'd appreciate it if another, more knowlegeable forum member could pinpoint the exact episode Spiner guest starred in.
Thanks,
Falc
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Post by Patcat on Apr 4, 2005 11:11:14 GMT -5
LOCIFan;
Thanks for mentioning that article--you jostled my memory about having read it. I agree--that situation might have been the inspiration.
A random thought--I loved the way Courtney Vance said "That man is an ass." And Carver gets the back seat, eh? That would have been an interesting trip back to One Police Plaza.
The FBI never looks very good in the LAW AND ORDER world, does it?
Patcat
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Post by domenicaflor on Apr 4, 2005 11:12:44 GMT -5
I'd appreciate it if another, more knowlegeable forum member could pinpoint the exact episode Spiner guest starred in. Thanks, Falc Falconia, The episode was "Shrink-Wrapped" with a very clever pun for a title. I think Spiner is brilliant and remember him fondly from his Star Trek and Night Court days. I had the pleasure to hear him speak at a Star Trek convention - he is very witty and personable. D.
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Post by falconia on Apr 4, 2005 11:35:17 GMT -5
Dear Domeniaflor, when Spiner visited Brazil to promote a ST feature film, I had the pleasure to be in the room when we, the Brazilian trekkers interviewed him for our fanzine, JET-Com. He's not only smart, very witty and insightful, he is also charming.
That twisted couple, playing that deadly game with the feelings of their child was gaggingly evil. Of the CI epies I've watched, I believe "Shrink-Wrapped" was one of the most disturbing.
Thanks for the info,
Falc
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Post by janetcatbird on Apr 4, 2005 12:57:39 GMT -5
I have missed the past two episodes so I can't compare, but I was impressed with this one. As mentioned by someone--sorry, can't see it--I was relieved that Rachel wasn't in on it. Bless her heart... Those "parents" (and I use the term loosely), God almighty. Notice how Goren referred to the deceased ocuple as Rachel's "real parents" near the end? Bingo. They cared for their daughter, and even though she and her father were fighting, that happens even in the best of households. And it's a stressful situation, I'd imagine, in Witness Protection. While I thought "you put this family in danger" was harsh at the beginning, it made sense, and you realize that part of that frustration was his love and concern that Rachel might get hurt as well.
(Side digression: A very interesting novel about a youth in isolation, trying to find himself, and the dangers of being in a witness protection program was "I Am the Cheese", by Robert Cormier. He does some very interesting, thought-provoking work. While "I Am the CHeese" was what sprang to mind with this episode, he also wrote a number of other books such as "The Chocolate War", "After the First Death", "The Bumblebee Flies Anyway", and others. He's a bit dark to read all the time, but I highly reccomend Cormier.)
I really enjoyed this. Not one of those that haunts you the following week, but still solid CI that I enjoy. Goren is psychological without being too unearthly, Eames got to go to work, and we even saw Deakins and Carver!! Woo hoo!! I agree, Patcat, calling someone an ass just sounds so eloquent coming from Courtney B. Vance (for a similar theme, listen to Lawrence FIshburne's questionnaire on "Inside the Actor's Studio"). Carver was a steady and cool professional, who can peacefully and effectively work witht he detectives.
I thought Deakins was good to see. Not only is he actively supervising, but he's also a sympathetic boss. (I'll get you the menu." OK, maybe he would have been a bit nicer to say "Go out for dinner, just come back in a little bit," but at least he thought of supper.) I also wonder if we got to see a little bit of Daddy Deakins with Rachel. He wasn't gushing and babying her, for professional reasons and respect that she is a young adult, but he recognized that she needed to feel safe and secure with someone who (she thought, at least) cared for her. But he also didn't jeapordize the investigation, he kept the squad car at the house so they'd know where she was.
Goren had his cheery moments, mainly he seemd subdued but you cna tell he was at work. I like the process of seeing them sift through stuff, think out loud, and puzzle through connections. They really are detectives, show how they do it.
(My thought is that the writers heard the critics complain about how Goren is always pulling random facts "out of his ass" with no real set-up, so they're trying to humanize him to shut people up. Besides, it's getting competitive, they don't want to alienate audiences in the rating wars.)
I did like the casual humor--it wasn't forced, just stuff you'd expect with people who work together and have known each other for a while. My favorite bit was when Goren was laying it on for the jewelery store lady to get her to talk about Trevor. "You know the type, charming, can talk about any subject..." and Eames cuts in: "Oh, one of those". Hee hee, I would have liked to see some sideways smirks, but it was still cute.
--Catbird
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amnesic
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 66
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Post by amnesic on Apr 4, 2005 13:47:23 GMT -5
I understand the concept, but I have a hard time with the idea of Law Enforcement officials being allowed to lie to suspects in order to ellicit a confession or tripping them into admiting a crime. I know it is common practice in the US, but... well... it is difficult for me to wrap my mind around it. Falc to me, many of the LOCI episodes revolve around trickery. it stands out so much for me because here in the UK the police are not allowed to use trickery of any kind - it is illegal. I always keep saying to myself "they could never make a British LOCI", it seems to be the focus of many of Goren's interviewing tactics
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