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Post by trisha on Sept 25, 2005 20:19:36 GMT -5
start! [/brat]
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Post by NicoleMarie on Sept 25, 2005 20:28:55 GMT -5
I am beyond disgusted with this episode. I won't bother to discuss rather just say this: A friend of mine is so disgusted she's removing the CI sections from her SVU/CI message board!!!The descion whether to keep watching this season was made a whole lot easier tonight.
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Post by trisha on Sept 25, 2005 20:29:00 GMT -5
Okay, time for an actual message.
A long time ago I joked that Bobby could never kill Nicole because deep down he wished that she'd become all rehabilitated and crap, and, you know, love kids and walk old ladies across the street.
Guess the joke was on me, eh?
I'll have to watch it again to see if I can buy the change in her behavior. Right now, I'm even more skeptical than Goren was that such a change is possible, and I have an slightly soapy taste in my mouth.
I was super excited by the preview for next week, though. Yippy for the snarky Irish violinist!
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Post by NicoleMarie on Sept 25, 2005 20:35:16 GMT -5
I made an actual message.
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Post by trisha on Sept 25, 2005 20:43:09 GMT -5
Oh no, honey, I meant from ME. I didn't post an actual message. I just pee'd a little circle around the thread start ;D
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Post by Cassie on Sept 25, 2005 20:43:15 GMT -5
I liked it, I liked it alot. I need to rewatch the episode again. But, I liked Noth coming into the Squad Room and Deakins showing him his small desk behind the pole. Eames, with her comment about his nice desk. Does Deakins really wants Noth in Major Case?? He made the comment his desk is in his view so he can watch him. but he had to trade in many a favor.
I felt Goren was on top of his game, when he was with Nicole, sitting on the steps while she was eating her lunch. He seemed alive and ready to battle her.
I liked the episode. I like the idea that Nicole is trying to overcome. Sorry, I know everyone wants her to get the Death Penalty.....and She should still get Death Penalty........but I still would like to see her overcome......
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Post by janetcatbird on Sept 25, 2005 20:48:25 GMT -5
If I can butt in, I don't think Trisha was referring to you, NicoleMarie. We tend to poke fun at our own posts. And now the nosy little goody-two-shoes slinks away... ETA: Whoops, Trisha explained herself while I was busy typing, sorry!
I for one liked the episode. Or maybe I was just glad that they didn't do so horrid as the voting episode. I thought Olivia D'Abo did an excellent job with this script. While it does seem a sudden turnaround for Nicole, don't forget how timid and retreating she seemed in "Great Barrier"--maybe the script writers didn't do a good job of showing that as transition, but then they didn't know if there'd be anything to transition to at the time. I would be perfectly happy if this was Nicole's final appearance, very similar to her first. She got away, but it's ambiguous. You never know if she'll come back, but you don't need to.
I made several notes as to my impressions, but since I was such a seagull regarding the poll I'll let other people post first.
--Catbird
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Post by NicoleMarie on Sept 25, 2005 20:54:47 GMT -5
It seems as if Nicole's other murders are forgotten, and those victims will never get justice. You don't just pat a murderer on the head and say "Oh honey, that's ok" and let it go. Any future crimes Nicole commits, the blood is on Goren's hands.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Sept 25, 2005 20:58:41 GMT -5
Oh no, honey, I meant from ME. I didn't post an actual message. I just pee'd a little circle around the thread start ;D Sorry! LOL!! I was thinking "Oh no, they liked it, you didn't, you better shut the hell up!" LOL!! Thanks Trsha!
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Post by Cassie on Sept 25, 2005 20:59:02 GMT -5
Any future crimes Nicole commits, the blood is on Goren's hands. Why do you say that NMaire? She was out on bail, for the murders, from the Great Barrier episode (sorry, i dont remember their names) She flew the coop. Goren, didnt let her go
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Post by trisha on Sept 25, 2005 21:04:33 GMT -5
Cassie, I really enjoyed this episode, too. I braced myself for the Nicole effect a little, but kept a mainly open mind about it. It also helps that I, again, refused to read the episode description from NBC.
NicoleMarie, I don't think he's letting her go. Even though he admitted to seeing that she was at least trying to change, he told her that she's damaged goods and that she can never have what she wants, especially if she's not willing to face who she is and what she's done. She's the only one who wants to forgive and forget, and it was because he refused to give her a pass on "the new Nicole," that she realized that it was best for the little girl if she didn't raise her, just in case.
So, if we see her again, will it be in context of another attempt to have a family and a normal life gone awry?
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Post by janetcatbird on Sept 25, 2005 21:14:56 GMT -5
But you see, Goren wasn't patting her on the head, he was emphasizing her need to confront what she did, that she had to serve prison time. They would have come after her as soon as the Buttwipe-Father got taken care of, it's just that the alert for the daughter got called in before they could get the necessary paperwork/warrant/whatever procedure.
I am mad that Goren still butted in Rodgers' turf, at the autopsy, but at least the writers didn't make her stand there slack-jawed. I was glad to see Rodgers contribute with medical info about the estrogen cream at the police station--was this a back-handed, "OK, we'll let you show some degree of skills as well"?
While I'm glad Eames beat Goren to an a-ha moment, did it have to be because of something pregnancy/girl thing? (I can't wait for the day when she picks up on a literary reference, only to smirk at Goren "You're not the only one who reads." A girl can dream, at least...)
I'm so proud of myself for noticing a technical glitch--did anyone else think that was a very unnatural echo for a domestic kitchen at the Chapel house?
While the girl playing Gwen was halfway decent--at least she looked like a believable kid, not too model-y--I thought her graveyard scene was contrived. Her speech to her Mom sounded like she memorized a book report for a class presentation, and not a little girl who missed her mother. I thought that "Daddy doesn't love me" was a What the...? moment, had Nicole put the idea in her mind beforehand or did the kid just know instinctively? (As to Buttwipe, who else wanted to smack him at that "I can always have another child..."?)
I like Logan's transitioning to the department, but I thought it unprofessional of Eames to interrupt Goren's beginning case schpiel about the desk outside the captain's window--shouldn't that have been either as they walked in the door, or on their way out? I can understand Deakins trying to get Logan on the team, and while the desk thing may seem a bit petty, it's understandably annoying. (Although the rock is easily solved, was up some paper towels and voy-la, as they say.) Why didn't they change the credits? Are they going to run two separate sequences depending on the leads in the case, or will they wait until he and the new girl are officially in the squad?
As to Nicole--the Buddha seemed out of character. But I like the whole ambiguous efforts at self-redemption. Did you see D'Abo's eyes during the critical scenes? That's what had me wondering--none of those smug self-satisfied smirks we've seen before, but rather a scared/sad expression. Yet another incidence of not trusting the promos: Nicole's getting under Bobby's skin was not an active effort at provocation, but merely the fact that she existed set him off. (But I am glad that Goren could get angry without getting histrionic. And that he could take a step back, recognize his mistakes, and move on.) I sort of miss that lively needling (she only got off one good dig about not trusting a librarian), but I am glad it didn't get too meldramatic.
Overall, I thought this was a nice effort, considering what they'd worked themselves into. I had to use headphones in the TV cause my roommate was working on a paper, and she gave me some funny looks when I started talking to the TV. ("They redeemed themselves!" I exclaimed with my hands in the air. Ooookaaaayy...) But I liked it.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Sept 25, 2005 21:15:42 GMT -5
He let her go because he seems to be forgetting her other crimes. Shes killed at least a dozen people in NYC yet, she gets bail? She buddies up to him, breaks down, and suddenly she's so changed? Her murders should not be forgotten and his behavior shouldn't be excused. This woman does not need to be patted on the head, she needs to face her crimes. And as long as Goren coddles her, she never will. That is what has me riled up. I'm not surprised at all Nicole lived- VDO seems to like the storyline. But this "Nicole is changed" crap is a farce and is disgusting to me. I don't understand how any show can do this. She needs to take take responsibility for her crimes, but she never will.
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Shadow
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 77
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Post by Shadow on Sept 25, 2005 21:37:08 GMT -5
NicoleMarie I agree with you totally......This particular show was good in one way and not so good in another. I feel as you do about Nicole Wallace. All of a sudden her and Goren are buddies....Nope...I find that one a little out of line.....and am disappointed in that ending... Granted the acting was good, but I just can not swallow the way this script went. Why did Goren do such a switcharoo? I couldn't believe my eyes.....Now he feels good about Wallace? Like I said. It's all too hard to swallow.. Oh BTW...When can we expect that cow Nicolemarie? Or have you thought of something a little more appropriate? ?? Well? ??lol.lol Shadow ;D ;D
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Post by trisha on Sept 25, 2005 21:47:16 GMT -5
I still don't see that Goren gave her any kind of pass or let her go. He wants to arrest her, and will if he gets the chance. He's certainly not her buddy. Does he respect those who wish to turn a new page? Yes; he's said as much in the past. That doesn't mean he puts his faith in those who attempt the feat, especially if they're a f**ked up as Nicole Wallace. I think he had some hope for her in Anti-Thesis, and that hope waned when she continued to destroy others and then disappeared completely after she screwed him in POI. Now he may see a glimmer of hope that her soul can be saved, but only by facing the truth and consequences of her actions.
His happy ending has her in prison reading her self help books and knitting blankets for the needy, not running off into the sunset to find a new family. It's his firm belief, and he said as much, that any family she touches will suffer for it.
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