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Post by LOCIfan on Nov 28, 2005 1:43:39 GMT -5
Wow, I really enjoyed this episode. It seems to me that the Logan episodes are starting to hit their stride. I'm finding Logan exceptionally entertaining to watch.
Loved the Logan scene with the Faluja vet. Moving, but not sentimental. Loved Logan's interaction with the doctor who said she'd dated a fireman and that it was "a lot of fun" to which he replied "You want fun? Date a cop." The expression on his face as he turned away was awesome. Also liked his hard-bitten commentary when he saw that the gutted woman's reproductive organs were left behind. He said something about it not being a lust crime. Perfect cop cynicism. Oh, and the scene with M.E. Rogers where he reacts to her saying that she'd have been a thoracic surgeon, until cutting into things that were "throbbing and red" turned her off. Wonderful reaction!
I also enjoyed the psychological aspect of the crime. The "afterborn" daughter of parents who'd lost their beloved son to cancer. She grew up knowing that she was a "replacement" child and could never live up, in actuality, to what her parents imagined her dead brother would've become.
Barek still leaves me pretty cold. But Logan more than makes up for that. I do like the fact that Logan and Barek are more equal partners than Goren and Eames. I'd just like to see Logan paired with someone with a bit more charisma -- man or woman... He deserves something more to play off of. He's fun to watch. He's interesting. He has a fire in his belly and the desire to learn about the ins and outs of the psychology of killers. He's not nearly as intellectual or analytical about it as Goren, but he's interesting in his own right.
Way to go, LOCI!
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Post by Patcat on Nov 28, 2005 9:19:43 GMT -5
I still have a sense that the episodes with Logan and Barek were originally set for Goren and Eames, and I can't help but think of how they would be like with G&E (imagine what Goren would have made of the parents who try to force one child to recreate another). But I definitely like Logan and am coming to like Barek. I did see the motivation for the doctor's actions coming, but watching it play out was interesting.
The previews for next week's show are promising.
Patcat
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Nov 28, 2005 17:58:58 GMT -5
I have to say, I have known Logan since his days on 'mothership' & didn't think too much of him at the time, he just... didn't appeal to me. But seeing him now, older & definitely wiser, & better at controlling his temper (I only wish I could have that kind of progress with my temper ) Also, I think the best thing for him was pairing him with a strong, smart & independent female partner. I get the vibe that he doesn't feel the need to compete like he did with male partners. While we're on the subject of Barek, I didn't like her at first as a character, I thought she was going to be mainly two dementional... in other words 'Bishop-like'. But The Wee Small Hours completely changed my perspective. The way she picked up on the man's nibbling of the muffin in the interview room was almost... dare i say... Goren-like?
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Post by Cassie on Nov 28, 2005 19:49:17 GMT -5
... dare i say... goren-like? I was thinking that too . I am starting to like her too. I like her sense of style, that big Andy Capp hat she was wearing at the crime scene. She looked sharp in it. She is her own person. Did anyone notice is Logan still wearing the same leather coat from when he was partners with Lenny and Max? I think it looks really worn around the edges. Part of me thinks it might be from the old days.. Then there is another part of me that thinks that since he work for The Major Case Squad. shouldnt his dress be inpecable as Gorens? but something else tells me Logan might have the nice car coat. Yet still, every morning he grabs the old leather, because he feels at home in it. Ok, I got a question. The drug mules. How does a person actually swallow something like that. those ballons looked the size of a half dollar. That bothers me, I know people do it. but I cant see how they do it...without biting into it and chewing it....Sounds silly.... but I keep visualizing those perogoies laced with herion, floating, and wondering how a person could ever get them down.
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noc
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 127
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Post by noc on Nov 28, 2005 20:03:15 GMT -5
I liked Logan and Brisco on the mothership. I like Barek, and it seems to be that I'm enjoying Logan and Barek more with each episode. I vaguely remember that when Season 1 was first on, it seemed like Eames "shadowed" Goren. But, within a few episodes, my interpretation changed to the fact that she was more than equal to Goren and brought a more traditional police procedure to offset Goren's "outside the lines" approach.
I keep on meaning to pull out my Season 1 DVD and rewatch the episodes, but I'm pretty sure it took me a while to warm up to Eames. I think we're learning more about Barek's people oriented strengths with each episode-such as knowing where the mass should be (I can't remember which episode that was).
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Post by darmok on Nov 28, 2005 20:17:58 GMT -5
I thought the episode was ok. It wouldn't be a lot different if Barek weren't there though. I agree that the scene with the muffin was Goren-like. That's why I disagree that she's her own person. They're trying to make her too much like Goren, but she just falls flat. I'm trying to give her a chance, but I haven't warmed up to her yet.
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Post by Cassie on Nov 28, 2005 20:22:12 GMT -5
hmmmmmm point taken Darmok but, its the hat that she was wearing....that makes me feel like she is her own person. I know I am strange. but I really liked that hat ;D
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Post by Techguy on Nov 28, 2005 22:26:59 GMT -5
This episode was a mixed bag for me. I'm really enjoying how Chris Noth is playing Mike Logan paying his dues in Major Case Squad. His Eames-like snarkiness is evident here, especially with his comment about the mutilated victim not being a result of a "lust crime" and his later "date a cop" remark. His use of a mechanical pencil to trap the plastic surgeon shows how Logan is learning to apply the smarts and tone down his physicality to get the desired results.
And I liked getting some background on ME Rodgers, how she intended to be a thoractic surgeon until she had to cut open something "red and throbbing." Apparently corpses are more to her liking. I wonder what she's like on a date?
Unfortunately, while Barek showed great promise in the two hour "Wee Small Hours" episode, she didn't impress me much as a unique character this time around. Part of the problem is, she came across as TOO Goren-like, as shown in the scenes where she notices the victim's father eating his food in a piece-meal fashion, and then later she observes the plastic surgeon fumbling with some papers in the interrogation room. This episode also went to great lengths to show her speaking and translating Spanish, and knowing where in Guatemala Zapotec is located. But...but...but...if Barek is being presented as the know-it-all half of the Logan/Barek team, how come she didn't know how to pronounce "phenolphthalein"? I thought that lack of basic smarts a bit inconsistent.
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noc
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 127
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Post by noc on Nov 28, 2005 23:01:42 GMT -5
Great points, Techguy. I keep swaying between Barek seeming too much like Goren Her "shy" mannerisms and hesitancy in the beginning of the season reminded me of Goren.
Just my own perception, but I haven't perceived that she has as interesting a back story as Goren. Being lent to the FBI is not like military intelligence, or that's my perception. And, her quotes to Logan about religion, knowledge of the mass, leads me to a conclusion that she is a churchgoer or at least has a respect for it. Probably projection on my part.
I guess my perception is she's an individual (loved the hat) and she's been recognized for her work. The language thing didn't indicate "genius" to me, but I'm in her age range (ok, I'm older) and studied about 4 languages in the first 12 years. My sister had the same experience. In a Catholic school system, it wasn't unusual in my generation.
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Post by Cassie on Nov 28, 2005 23:09:39 GMT -5
. Apparently corpses are more to her liking. I wonder what she's like on a date? . In the episode Malignant, Goren asked how come she only got 7 out 13 bodies exhumed for the autopsy. she responded with...."there is a reason why I work with dead people but...if Barek is being presented as the know-it-all half of the Logan/Barek team, how come she didn't know how to pronounce "phenolphthalein"? I thought that lack of basic smarts a bit inconsistent. Seriously, maybe she is verbally dyslexic. Laugh, as I am sure you may....but there are people like that
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Post by amberlight on Nov 29, 2005 0:23:14 GMT -5
I am still really trying to like them. I support the idea of less work for Erbe and Vincent, and was gunho from the start. I continue to have trouble with Berek. She is so detached, unemotional, flat, and she mumbles which ticks me off. If the character is crafted that way - well, I don't get it. Her robot-like demeanor is irritating. Mike is Mike and Noth has re-activated him as if he never left. Kudos to Noth for have his character so well preserved. It's hard for me to see the same sets, supporting characters, and the CI formula, but - no Vincent or Kate - damn I am finding it tough without them. I have never until recently appreciated how well those two actors, after 41/2yrs together, mesh. They remain my pull to keep watching. Berek makes me want to hit the frig. for a snack. I agree with other comments that in the Wee Small Hours, she showed some life. It faded again in this epi. I keep saying, support it, support it, so Erbe and Vincent might stay, but it remains tough.
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noc
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 127
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Post by noc on Nov 29, 2005 1:11:09 GMT -5
I thought she was flat, too, and too timid at first. In Wee Hours, she stood up for Logan, and he appreciated it.
I think we'll see more of her personality as time goes on, but I'm usually optimistic. I wasn't as annoyed with Roehm as most mothership devotees.
With a new alpha male partner, Barek may be deferential toward him and the other "guys" until she earns their respect.Then, they might listen to her theories rather than turning her "off" and dismissing her as having been hired to meet a quota.
Or, I'm wrong and she has the personality of a wet noodle.
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Duet
Silver Shield Investigator
Bing.... Reality.
Posts: 129
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Post by Duet on Nov 29, 2005 13:31:13 GMT -5
I don't like or dislike Barek with the passion I've read from everyone here so far, but I must admit that I wish there was less trashing if the poor woman. I believe that with time the actress will settle into the role. Right now from what I've seen she hasn't really been given enough lines to find the personality Barek is. I agree that the scripts that contain Logan and Barek seen to be written for Goren and Eames and I can see how that would make and odd man out like Sciorra have difficulties cultivating a character that was all hers. I wish the writers would create a story that was driven by the character of Barek to give Sciorra the opportunity to flesh out Barek and make her more "real".
I really liked this episode. I hate to admit it cause I am a Goren fan, but I do look forward, to some degree, of seeing more of these two in action.
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Post by amberlight on Nov 29, 2005 20:08:10 GMT -5
Duet, for me I am not trashing her, I just do not enjoy her character development. This actress, I am sure climbed over a lot of other hopefuls for the role and got it. My head scratcher, is why her?? Let me clarify and use a paraphrase from Vincent
If someone hands you the ball, you had better be ready!
Ms. S. is no novice, she is a professional with some history. She is, in my eyes, expected to come in with a solid character concept which she will develop granted, as time goes on. But she came in with no clear character and is still shuffling about finding it. All the other characters came in with a strong identity, which developed over the years. Vincent came in, loaded for bear, with a character idea in mind - Epi "One" showed us Goren immediately. He got better with practice, but the character was already sound in that very first peek at CI. In such a highly competitive industry, I guess I find it hard to believe that Wolfdom is calm and relaxed saying " okay, ease into the role, let it develop slowly, not in that cut throat industry. Which leads me to say, they see something my clueless self has missed so far. I happen to want this duet to do well and keep CI ratings healthy.
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Post by trisha on Nov 30, 2005 11:29:55 GMT -5
I also liked this episode and do see Barek getting more personality as we go along, but also still find her a bit lack luster.
Just wondering, am I the only one who had a WTF moment when she started pulling files from the paper bag?
I admit it, I'm the one who suggested that she snort when she laughs (if she's able to laugh) to add a little cute to her very subdued personality, but having her look like a shopping bag lady is going too far, IMO.
I hope she gets a brief case for Christmas.
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