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Post by falconia on Apr 7, 2005 23:40:02 GMT -5
In my country, a few crimes are becoming more and more popular these days: flash kidnapping for ransom (a person is held captive while criminals clean up what they can on ATM machines, the victim is released afterwards); classic kidnapping for ransom (kids are now the target of choice), and a few others.
There is this one, where a gang holds the family of a bank manager hostage while the manager is taken to the bank and forced to facilitate the robbery.
In my country, the manager is regarded as a victim and he is not arrested or tried for anything. The legal term here is "irresistible coercion".
I'm a very curious person and I know there are a few people here with knowledge, some members involved with Law Enforcement, I guess, so I'd like to ask about the way the US regards this kind of crime and, legally, what would be the position of the manager who was forced to facilitate a crime under duress.
Can anyone tell me?
Thanks in advance,
Falconia
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Post by Stephanie on Apr 8, 2005 11:14:34 GMT -5
Wow, we don't hear much about those kind of situations here in the US. (Not on the news anyway)
In the US the bank manager would be considered a victim as well (unless of course, they figured out he/she was part of the plan - then he would be arrested.) Although I don't know the legal term for sure, the manager would be covered by a coercion law similar, if not the same, to yours.
That's a good question - I have to check back in with you and give some more details once I double check myself. ;D
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Post by Patcat on Apr 8, 2005 11:21:56 GMT -5
Slightly OT, but there's a very fine movie called THE DESPERATE HOURS from the 1950s that stars Humphrey Bogart as a bank robber who takes the family of a bank manager (played by Fredric March--a great actor who's underrated these days) hostage. It's a tight psychological thriller. Avoid the remake from the 80s starring Mickey Rourke and Anthony Hopkins. Hopkins is great, but Rourke and the film are not.
Patcat
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Post by falconia on Apr 8, 2005 11:23:42 GMT -5
Thanks, Stephanie.
I'm very curious about these thinks. Here in Brazil, this crime is very popular and it is always on the news.
The bank manager is never in the plot, at least not here. He is proved a victim, all right.
Falconia
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Post by Metella on Apr 8, 2005 11:46:09 GMT -5
I've heard of this "trend" for a few years ..... that it is actually widespread all over South America, a huge problem.
I actually passed up a cheapo vacation in Bolivia because I figured I would stand out as a gringo & get picked off for family money I didn't have!
It is a trend that is hurting the advancement of many countries that could use a stronger economy and some tourist $$; but from what I have read, the cops are either in on it, paid to look the other way, or threated and scared off; very few are prosecuted.
Too much law is repressive, too little is scary!
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Post by falconia on Apr 8, 2005 13:43:15 GMT -5
You said it all, Metella. In third world countries, the cops are either intrinsically corrupt and/or so grossly underpaid, they're either in on the crime or bribed to look the other way.
A cheapo vacation in Bolivia? You're better off home, dear, IMHO. And that said, how many tourists and business are passing South America countries by for fear of their crime rate?
About movies, there was one starring Johnny Depp where he is a regular guy whose little daughter is taken hostage to force him to commit an assassination.
I havent'seen it but Johnny Depp usually is a badge of quality.
Falconia
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Post by KATIE on Apr 8, 2005 18:35:19 GMT -5
There have been a couple of instances here in Aus, where the bank managers movements were watched by criminals and he was taken back from his home to open the safe. Of course police here investigate all possibilities, its not unusual for somebody to work from the inside either. just a couple of weeks ago, a robbery tool place in a bank and the security guard complied with the robbers request and they still shot him point blank in the head. I still remember his wife on tv, appealing to the public for help to catch the cold blooded killers, he was 56yrs, near retirement what a waste of life. Yes there is corruption here too it comes out. I hope im on the right track here. Katie
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Post by Metella on Apr 9, 2005 6:31:43 GMT -5
Yes, but Katie; what Falconia and I are talking about is really - functionally - the lack of ANY real police at all. If you have a cop who really wants to do good - he is Murdered or stonewalled so he can't get anywhere & his family threatened or killed.
This is movie stuff that is going on; real people are being bashed in, bullied, etc and try to imagine wanting to go to the market and fearing that if the bad guys are out at the same time you are - there is no # to call for the cops to come; no rescue; you have to lay low & hope they glance at you.
It is a terrible state and I feel for the good people that live under these conditions. I wish they could rise up and knock the snot out of the nutsos; and take life back.
There are some cool places that still seem ok; but I like to go off the beaten track & won't be trekking in S. America for fear of not making home. Too bad.
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Post by falconia on Apr 9, 2005 7:16:35 GMT -5
Metella, if you want to try S. America, there really are a few spots you can go to and feel safe, especially if you don't come all alone.
I would never recommend S. Paulo. It is a city much like Detroit: hard, unyielding, ruthless... well, I don't like S. Paulo myself.
Rio is a city besieged by hillslums, where dope dealers really rule. Gang wars are common. Oddly enough, we still get our fair share of tourists and, apart from the occasional pickpocked, flash mugging, there have been no really grave incidents in the recent past.
However, I would most highly recommend the NorthEast of Brazil: South of Bahia is extremelly popular now, with gorgeous beaches. Also Pernambuco State, Ceará, all the Northeastern shores and Fernando de NOronha Island.
Try a Google search on the names. I bet your next vactation will be down here.
Falconia
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Post by KATIE on Apr 9, 2005 10:03:52 GMT -5
Oh ok , like these "underground" people in aus that are getting "hit" and the police arent, cant do anything? one after the other of these family`s are being murdered in daytime, no arrests yet. I do hear what your saying though, police turn a blind eye so to speak. Katie shaking brain in place. ;D
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Post by Metella on Apr 10, 2005 16:45:40 GMT -5
Ah, a lone quiet beach, I may like that! soft lapping waves .... chirpping birds ..... now I need some extra cash
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Post by KATIE on Apr 13, 2005 7:52:18 GMT -5
Ahh Metella, AUSTRALIA thats just where you need to be, you can have all of that here and its not exspensive living either. See ya when you get here.  |
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Post by falconia on Apr 13, 2005 8:05:15 GMT -5
I bet Brazil is cheaper, Metella. Every US$ worth about R$ 2,60 (reais, Brazil's currency). And we have absolutely wonderful spots, where a tourist can go and be careful as he/she would be anywhere else in the world.
I'd recommend, as I did, the NorthEastern shore cities of Brazil, Fernando de Noronha Island, or, if you're up to something exotic, try the Rain Forest in the Amazon. That is unforgettable.
Send me word when you come and I'll greet you at Rio's airport.
Falconia
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Post by Metella on Apr 13, 2005 15:11:59 GMT -5
Wow - now there's an offer - I wish I had a dog sitter.
I have to wait for any trip lasting over 12 hours until my loved; but pain-in-the-butt dogs are no more. I adore them, but they can't be handled by anyone else - so a kennel or paying a friend (or enemy) to watch them is out of the question. sigh.
I think I would like a rain forest/eco vacation .... even a sloth would be fascinating for me = biogeek
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