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Nov 8, 2006 19:58:52 GMT -5
Post by LOCIfan on Nov 8, 2006 19:58:52 GMT -5
Yeah, but that's the price you pay for being a world power. Britain, Rome, Egypt, would all have aroused the same hostilities in their time. True, however the fact remains that even America's closest allies have unprecedented negative impressions of the United States. According to a poll released earlier this month, people in the UK (75%) see Bush as a greater threat to world peace than North Korean dictator Kim Jong-Il (69%) or Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (62%) (both of whom are charter members of Bush's infamous "axis of evil") and the leader of Hezbullah, Hassan Nasrallah (65%). bin-Laden does still outrank Bush in the eyes of the Brits as a threat to world peace, with 87% saying bin-Laden poses a "great or moderate danger to world peace". Still, that's a pretty staggering result to see from the United States' closest ally. Findings are similar in Canada, Mexico and -- gasp -- even Israel, where 62%, 57% and 36% (respectively) believe Bush's policies have made the world more dangerous. These are the opinions of some of America's closest allies. So I'm not at all surprised that the BBC is talking about Virginia and Montana. The perception around the world is that Bush has made the world, not just the United States, a more dangerous place. Therefore, the outcomes of our mid-term elections have international ramifications.
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Nov 8, 2006 20:57:20 GMT -5
Post by Techguy on Nov 8, 2006 20:57:20 GMT -5
www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/11/08/south_dakotans_reject_tough_abortion_ban/From the country's heartland, voters sent messages that altered America's culture wars and dismayed the religious right -- defending abortion rights in South Dakota, endorsing stem cell research in Missouri, and, in a national first, rejecting a same-sex marriage ban in Arizona.
The verdict on abortion rights was particularly clear. Oregon and California voters defeated measures that would have required parents to be notified before a girl under 18 could get an abortion, and South Dakotans -- by a margin of 56 percent to 44 percent -- rejected a new state law that would have banned all abortions except to save a pregnant woman's life.
Liberal groups did have some setbacks. Michigan voters approved a ban on some types of affirmative action programs, Colorado and Arizona passed measures targeting illegal immigrants, and seven states approved gay-marriage bans, joining 20 that had done so in previous elections.
However, gay-rights supporters took heart at the relatively close results in some of the seven states, notably in South Dakota, where the ban received only 52 percent of the vote.
In Arizona, the defeat of the ban stemmed in part from its scope. It not only would have reinforced an existing state law against same-sex marriage, but also would have barred any government entities from recognizing civil unions or domestic partnerships in providing benefits to employees.
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Nov 8, 2006 22:03:23 GMT -5
Post by janetcatbird on Nov 8, 2006 22:03:23 GMT -5
I just saw that they think Virginia went to Webb, the Democrat, and it looks like Democrats now have the Senate as well as the House. Not sure if there's gonna be a huge recount/lawsuit debacle, but that's last I heard.
Elizabethbay, people on the board call me Catbird. And I know that like it or not, America does have a huge influence on the world so people want to know what we're up to. Americans are pretty lousy as a general rule/stereotype in finding out about other places til somebody smacks us upside the head with whatever issue. I know somebody who spent a semester abroad in New Zealand, and he had to sit through some very interesting knee-jerk reactions. Shoot, I get scared at some of the stuff I see and look longingly towards Canada, so I can only imagine how arrogant/idiotic/control-freak we seem to the rest of the world.
I think North Carolina is just slightly Repub with 7/6 split. (My district reelected a Democrat. I don't think we had any big issues other than local bonds for renovations, fire departments, etc.) No senators up this time.
And how insane is it that The Comedy Central Indecider blog called Rumsfeld's resignation before anybody else? I know rumors had been floating a while, but I think they were the first to associate it with Bush's press conference in the wee hours. (They were joking online about peeing their pants in shock or "Still no credibility, just better sources.")
--Catbird
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Nov 8, 2006 22:14:16 GMT -5
Post by Techguy on Nov 8, 2006 22:14:16 GMT -5
Non-Americans are not just interested in US elections for purely informational reasons. Foreign governments who want to push the US buttons and see what they can get away with have an interest in mid-term elections to gauge the support for the US President at home. If a President has to contend with a hostile Congress, he might not have the time to pay as close attention to what's going on in the international arena.
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Nov 8, 2006 23:16:08 GMT -5
Post by LOCIfan on Nov 8, 2006 23:16:08 GMT -5
Techguy,
I don't doubt that foreign governments monitor what's going in in the U.S. for their own policy reasons (just as the United States government does to guage what will fly and what won't). But the pervasive international media coverage of these mid-term elections indicates a heavy interest in the outcome from regular citizens in the UK, Australia, Canada, Israel, France, Germany, etc... The foreign media wouldn't cover it if there wasn't an audience for it. They're chasing ratings just like our domestic news media is.
I also believe this interest reflects the profound misgivings citizens of the world have concerning the United States' handling of both the war in Iraq and the War on Terror. It is quite unsettling to think that 75% of Brits believe Bush is a "great or moderate danger to world peace" and find him a greater threat to world peace than despotic, repressive, and loose cannon dictator Kim Jong-Il. Wow. The United States is no longer viewed as a force for good in the world EVEN BY ENGLAND. That's stunning. Not that I disagree, it's just very sad.
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elizabethbay
Detective
Oh god, I've swallowed the tie clip...
Posts: 242
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Nov 8, 2006 23:31:41 GMT -5
Post by elizabethbay on Nov 8, 2006 23:31:41 GMT -5
Elizabethbay, people on the board call me Catbird. And I know that like it or not, America does have a huge influence on the world so people want to know what we're up to. Americans are pretty lousy as a general rule/stereotype in finding out about other places til somebody smacks us upside the head with whatever issue. I know somebody who spent a semester abroad in New Zealand, and he had to sit through some very interesting knee-jerk reactions. Shoot, I get scared at some of the stuff I see and look longingly towards Canada, so I can only imagine how arrogant/idiotic/control-freak we seem to the rest of the world. Well Catbird - and that IS a fabulous name - the stereotyping indeed runs both ways, as you suggest. As a New Yorker-Sydneysider, I get hit by stereotyping cars on both sides of the road. I haven't gone to a single dinner party since Bush was elected that, after a few drinks, some boofhead hasn't begun personally berating me about Dubyah, or gassing on about vile American cultural imperialism (knee-jerk? It's positively an anti-American Rockette line some days). In America, I've been attacked for not living in The Greatest Country on Earth - traitor! - and condescendingly asked if Australia had DVDs yet (yep, and telephones and TVs, and gosh! electric lights). I've even been asked if I had problems driving in Sydney with all the kangaroos, and I had to tell them that I surely would, if the kangaroos ever scraped together the cab fare to get to town. Yep, Australians stupidly lump Americans into one Homeland Heartland "red" of provincial neo-cons, a superpower bully (who play football with HELMETS, the sissy poofters!); Americans see Australians as Outback/beachside naifs, mustering sheep or bronzing on Bondi, shooing koalas off the sidewalks, happy-go-lucky little frontier Eden at the edge of the world. Into the mix, there's George Bush, despised on both sides of the Pacific - and Atlantic. The one question, though, I can never answer to anypone's satisfaction, including my own, is: what were you thinking when you elected him last time with a clear majority? I'm burning this soapbox now. Thank you for listening to me, Catbird :) :)
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Nov 9, 2006 0:30:39 GMT -5
Post by janetcatbird on Nov 9, 2006 0:30:39 GMT -5
Well Catbird - and that IS a fabulous name - the stereotyping indeed runs both ways, as you suggest. .... The one question, though, I can never answer to anypone's satisfaction, including my own, is: what were you thinking when you elected him last time with a clear majority? Thank you for listening to me, Catbird :) :) Oh that's one reason I love this board! The variety of perspectives on more than a television show! John Oliver (The new British "courrespondante" for The Daily Show wrote a terrific piece for a paper back in Britain which basically amounted to: hey, individual Americans have a rough time too. Not only do they have to live with a president they didn't vote for, but they also have to live with the people who did. (Not to rag too hard on Bush supporters; everybody has their reasons even if I can't see them. I'm sure those of us on the liberal side can also get obnoxious in our turn.) Like I said, I like the BBC for a different perspective, although NPR usually does a good job too. Just today BBC World Service had a piece about "Heritage", part of a series in which a correspondant came to the US to see how Americans preserve their history. This installment featured the USS Constitution and the Jamestown excavations so I was quite happy. And thanks for the compliment! I just strung together bits and pieces I liked for "janetcatbird", but that felt a bit unwieldy and I didn't care for "Janet" as shorthand--just didn't feel like me. That's why I try to sign my posts! --Catbird
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Nov 9, 2006 19:02:47 GMT -5
Post by member727 on Nov 9, 2006 19:02:47 GMT -5
I've even been asked if I had problems driving in Sydney with all the kangaroos... shooing koalas off the sidewalks... What, you mean you don't have that problem up there? *gets out Shooing Broom* ;D And out of interest, how did you end up coming out to Oz?
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Nov 9, 2006 19:53:16 GMT -5
Post by Techguy on Nov 9, 2006 19:53:16 GMT -5
George Bush...what were you thinking when you elected him last time with a clear majority? I take great pride in the fact I played absolutely NO role in this!
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elizabethbay
Detective
Oh god, I've swallowed the tie clip...
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Nov 9, 2006 22:22:05 GMT -5
Post by elizabethbay on Nov 9, 2006 22:22:05 GMT -5
I've even been asked if I had problems driving in Sydney with all the kangaroos... shooing koalas off the sidewalks... What, you mean you don't have that problem up there? *gets out Shooing Broom* ;D And out of interest, how did you end up coming out to Oz? Well, of course we have that problem of koalas strewn all over the streets, member 727! Positively rains with 'em down by the Opera House. My goodness, this is Austrayleeah, where we're still awaiting the invention of two-ply loo paper, so my US friends think In Sydney, when it starts to rain koalas, we don't shoo them away: we gather 'em up and just throw another koala on the barbie. To answer your question: I came here 20 years ago on assignment with a US magazine. Got a job offer from an Oz magazine, and stayed on ;-) I do go back to the US two or three times a year. Sometimes I can't believe it's the same place. "Let America be America again" said the poet.
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Nov 9, 2006 22:46:49 GMT -5
Post by member727 on Nov 9, 2006 22:46:49 GMT -5
Ah, right. You know down here we burn 'em in power stations to provide electricity, right? "We're losing power in the south-east, Steve! Shovel some more koalas in the furnace!" Of course, that's only since last Tuesday, when we discovered electricity Now that sounds like the kind of career I'd like And it looks like twenty years ago, we were getting a better class of immigrant ;D
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elizabethbay
Detective
Oh god, I've swallowed the tie clip...
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Nov 9, 2006 23:55:40 GMT -5
Post by elizabethbay on Nov 9, 2006 23:55:40 GMT -5
Ah, right. You know down here we burn 'em in power stations to provide electricity, right? "We're losing power in the south-east, Steve! Shovel some more koalas in the furnace!" Of course, that's only since last Tuesday, when we discovered electricity ROFLMAO!!!! And in case anyone is wondering, of course Member 727 and I don't actually have internet or email. We're posting all this rubbish with Aboriginal message sticks.
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Nov 10, 2006 2:57:37 GMT -5
Post by member727 on Nov 10, 2006 2:57:37 GMT -5
Well, I am. You're clearly using the new-fangled tin-can-on-a-string technology...
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elizabethbay
Detective
Oh god, I've swallowed the tie clip...
Posts: 242
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Nov 10, 2006 6:23:17 GMT -5
Post by elizabethbay on Nov 10, 2006 6:23:17 GMT -5
Techguy, .... the pervasive international media coverage of these mid-term elections indicates a heavy interest in the outcome from regular citizens in the UK, Australia, Canada, Israel, France, Germany, etc... The foreign media wouldn't cover it if there wasn't an audience for it. They're chasing ratings just like our domestic news media is. . ..The United States is no longer viewed as a force for good in the world EVEN BY ENGLAND. That's stunning. Not that I disagree, it's just very sad. We're having too much fun. Just to get serious here, LOCIfan has hit every mark with this post, in my opinion. There is a real feeling abroad that the US is the new Evil Empire, that it even hates its own citizens (no decent minimum wage, no gun control, no universal health care - the only First World country to deny its citizens that health coverage, by the way). At the same time, the international media bottom-feeds on those fears, entrenching American-bashing as editorial doctrine. It's so reflexive now, that the very word 'American' has become perjorative. Anti-American - supersize me. It sells well, I am sad to report.
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Nov 10, 2006 9:06:06 GMT -5
Post by member727 on Nov 10, 2006 9:06:06 GMT -5
Yup. And just to add to the mix, Dickens was one of the first real America-bashers - he built a whole secondary career out of travel writing documenting the Hilarious and Barbarous customs of those breakaway colonials. And once people saw how much money could be made from it (writers, journalists and demagogues), they just ran with it, and haven't stopped. It's kind of funny though, when Americans wise up and play along, they just don't notice ;D
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