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Post by Jefferaldo on May 8, 2006 5:41:03 GMT -5
W-O-W!
This is one of the best Criminal Intent episodes in my opinion. Not THE best but one of them. Chris Noth's performance is amazing in this episode and I see they decided not to use Van Buren - I guess S. Epatha Merkerson had a beef with the way they used her character.
Chesley is more evil than Nicole from what I've seen in this first episode and interrogation with her was interesting.
I will post later when I rewatch this!
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lovesong
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 98
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Post by lovesong on May 8, 2006 6:31:35 GMT -5
A return to greatness!! Best episode since season 3! I have decided if Logan is going to be this good consistantly, I don't care anymore what they do with Goren. Goldberg was a much better villianess than that awful D'Abo person. I will still miss Jimmy D however.
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lovesong
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 98
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Post by lovesong on May 8, 2006 6:32:06 GMT -5
A return to greatness!! Best episode since season 3! I have decided if Logan is going to be this good consistantly, I don't care anymore what they do with Goren. Goldberg was a much better villianess than that awful D'Abo person. I will still miss Jimmy D however.
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Post by comedykicks on May 8, 2006 7:27:38 GMT -5
Holy mother of #$%@!! This was an AWSOME episode!! I taped it because there was a screaming baby downstairs and I missed some of it.
This woman is pure evil and crazy to boot. This isn't a foster mom, she's a cult leader.
This is my favorite Logan/Barak episode yet. ;D
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Post by filmnoir5 on May 8, 2006 7:45:59 GMT -5
I thought it was a very good episode of "L&O". In fact better than any episode of "L&O" this season. It was also one of the best episodes of a cop show this season as well.
However, this was more of a L&O original episode than a Criminal Intent episode. Or better yet, more like an episode of one of my favorite shows---NYPD Blue and every other cop show that I watch.
It is as if they have canceled one of my favorite shows but there is still a show airing in the slot with the same title.
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Post by Techguy on May 8, 2006 8:23:46 GMT -5
Chesley Watkins as Medea?
The Greek tragedy dramatist, Euripides, in 431 B.C. wrote "Medea," a play about Medea's murder of her two sons as revenge for the unfaithfulness of her husband Jason.
Medea said: "Let no man think I am a feeble, frail-hearted woman who sits with folded hands: no, let them know me for the opposite of that - one who knows how to hurt her enemies ..." Chesley Watkins instructs her foster sons to take machetes to their home invasions because "when you see someone with a machete, you know they mean business."
Medea mused that the cruellest way to hurt Jason was to kill their children. In pledging her maid to silence about this deed, Medea said, "Say nothing of the plans I have prepared; don't say a word, if you are loyal to your mistress and loyal to the race of woman!"
Euripides articulated the modern problem of loyalty to "the race of woman" and its attendant silence on mothers' aggression towards their children. Chesley Watkins knows exactly what buttons to push to gain and retain the loyalty and silence of her foster sons--to their deaths. Logan is going to have his hands full.
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Post by mimi1802 on May 8, 2006 8:32:15 GMT -5
This episode surely has taken the expressions "Life’s a b*tch and then you die" and "Sh*t happens" to a new-level. How incompetent the police force can be for not to letting one but two kids die under their custody? That set aside, I have mixed feelings towards the episode; the kind of hesitation you feel from having been burned once. Taken as its own, the episode was the package deal: well-written and well-acted. Goldberg’s capacity to detect and fuel on one’s weakness was absolutely beautiful to watch. In Logan's case, she saw, she understood and she played him like a fiddle. Logan on the other hand displayed interrogating techniques I haven't seen him do on the Mothership. Very good episode on a character basis as well as on a story basis. I guess it takes 3 writers to write a good nemesis! This makes me disagree that this was more a Mothership episode. Just because Logan is in it, doesn’t inevitably mean it’s going to be a procedural episode. The psychology aspect was a huge part of the story; making it a criminal intent episode. The special appearance of Dr Olivet was a very well-integrated scene. Logan and Olivet shared on the Mothership a deep relationship. For Logan to call Olivet for help showed how he has evolved psychologically in 10 years. Though, I would have liked to see Barek more involved in all aspect of this case. She seems to not know how to deal with Logan in this episode. I felt, it was a missed opportunity to cement their partnership. I had vision of Kronos eating his own children in fear that they would turn on him as he turned on his own father. ETA: Well Techguy, I see that the Greeks have inspired the writing team for this episode.
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Post by Techguy on May 8, 2006 8:53:04 GMT -5
How incompetent the police force can be for not to letting one but two kids die under their custody? And why didn't the foster son cop identify himself as a police officer when Logan drew his gun and announced he was police?Goldberg’s capacity to detect and fuel on one’s weakness was absolutely beautiful to watch. In Logan's case, she saw, she understood and she played him like a fiddle...The psychology aspect was a huge part of the story; making it a criminal intent episode. Chesley Watkins as the anti-Guinan? All she needs is a black version of the hat she wore as the ST: TNG character and she'll be good to go for another round with Logan.
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Post by Cassie on May 8, 2006 9:24:41 GMT -5
How incompetent the police force can be for not to letting one but two kids die under their custody? And why didn't the foster son cop identify himself as a police officer when Logan drew his gun and announced he was police?I saw that scene as "sucide by cop" the foster kid cop, knew what he was doing. thanks Jefferaldo for reminding me that Whoopi's character will be back. I was orginally dissapointed thinking she was getting away with it all.
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Post by filmnoir5 on May 8, 2006 9:40:43 GMT -5
A return to greatness!! Best episode since season 3! I have decided if Logan is going to be this good consistantly, I don't care anymore what they do with Goren. Goldberg was a much better villianess than that awful D'Abo person. I will still miss Jimmy D however. You are a very lucky individual. I wish I could share your feelings. I have a feeling that you are going to be rewarded for feeling this way. I have a bad feeling that the January move could be a way for Wolf and Co. to air less than 20 episodes in the midseason period and therefore, get Chris Noth to agree to be the lead in all of the episodes. They would just make fewer episodes. If this happens, I just hope we get to see Vincent D'Onofrio and Kathryn Erbe in other films or making guest appearances on other TV shows. I am very suspicious of the fact that this Deakins story arch only includes one Goren/Eames episode but 2 Logan/Barek episodes. I am also suspicious that the preview for next week does not even show Goren/Eames. I hate to say this but I think they are being phased out of the show. I don't like the sound of the Variety article at all. Wolf and Co. seem to think the cure to all the L&O show ills is to bring on "fresh faces" I think 2 of the fresh faces could be detectives that replace Goren and Eames and work with Mike Logan. NBC and other networks are notorious for getting producers of shows to make changes in order to get renewed. They did this with Boomtown, Veronica Mars, Angel,... They don't realize that many viewers would rather see a show canceled and be able to watch the DVDs or reruns than see a show come back different from the one that made them a loyal viewers. This is a case of "be careful what you want you may get it" The L&Os all have been renewed but not "as is" If I want to see "fresh faces" I will watch the "new shows" next fall. I prefer familiar faces who are given good story lines to match their talent.
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Post by mikeyrocks on May 8, 2006 10:10:43 GMT -5
I thought this was a wonderful episode - extremely compelling and beautifully acted. BRAVO. Whoopi Goldberg was fantastic.
I tend to agree with mimi1802 - that the very strong psychologically apects of this episode make it much more of a CI episode than that of the Mothership.
I also think that perhaps you are jumping the gun abit filmnoir - they say that we will see some changes in CI next season BUT I don't think the loss of Goren and Eames will be among these changes.
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Post by goreamesfan on May 8, 2006 10:26:43 GMT -5
I tend to agree with filmnoir about the episode. Though it did focus on psychological aspects of the crime, I still felt like I was watching a different L&O. And though I enjoyed it very much (particularly Noth's performance), I thought the final interrogation between Noth and Goldberg was weak and forced. I tend to agree with those who think we don't need arch-villains to make the show interesting to watch. I think it requires too much suspension of disbelief, in most cases.
On the other hand, I enjoyed the show -- the first with Logan/Barek that I've actually watched all the way through. And I did think they used the cop shooting as a way to cement the partners' relationship a little, without trying to take it too far. Good job.
As for phasing out Goren and Eames -- not next season. If things go increasingly well with the Logan/Barek team, however, or if D'Onofrio/Erbe want out of their contract (which I think is entirely possible, especially for D'Onofrio), it gives Wolf an alternative (and one he's used many times before). And don't look for VDO to appear on TV again once he leaves. I think LOCI is it for him.
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Post by deebee on May 8, 2006 10:54:07 GMT -5
I thought this was one of the best eppys this season. The whole irony of Mike Logan shooting another cop by mistake a cop who has had Two count em Two of his partner’s shot with( one surviving and one dying) was such a great idea IMO. You could see how devastated Logan was that he of all people would shoot a fellow Cop. Loved his interaction with Olivet he has come a long way I remember when his first partner was killed how reluctantly he went for his required therapy. Anybody else ever think Logan and Olivet might make an interesting couple? I hated to see Whoopi play him but wow she really tapped into his mother issues. I like that L& O was able to introduce personal elements into the characters especially Logan even though we don’t get to see the cops “off-duty” we know Mike has had lot of issues with his mother that sometimes affect his reaction to certain cases although sometimes it is a rather than a detriment. But I think his guilt and shock over killing another officer made him more vulnerable to being manipulated. I’m still puzzled why the undercover officer did not drop his weapon or identify himself as a cop unless he wanted to be killed?
Re: next season. If we get Mike Logan for 13 out of 15 eppys I’m happy. I’d rather see a full season of 22 and Mike in all of them but 13 out of 15 isn’t bad. I’m just glad they are keeping Chris Noth next season. If all the L& O shows are returning does anyone know if that includes Conviction? Anson Mount is my new Chris Noth. If they cancel Conviction maybe bring in Anson Mount to work with the ADA Carver Courtney B. Vance and we’d have 3 Sexy guys actually four counting Jamey Sheridan!
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Post by madger on May 8, 2006 10:54:57 GMT -5
I thought it very interesting that they showed that psychology really isn't Logan's forte, he got played by Chesley big time in that interview, but he has grown emotionally from the mothership episodes, a lot, 10 years ago he would have just bashed her brains in. I loved the Olivet cameo. I sure hope you guys are wrong about Goren/Eames, I can see where they would want to move on, but I sure would miss them. I like CN, but I don't think I would be a loyal viewer, I'd wait for reruns, since the show is on past my bedtime. Barek's monotone annoys the hell out of me. madger
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Post by Patcat on May 8, 2006 11:23:27 GMT -5
Due to a migraine, I only got to see the last 15 or so minutes of this episode, so I'm scarcely qualified to comment on it. The 15 minutes I saw did have some impressive acting in it.
But I revealed my loyalties right in those first words. If this had been a Goren/Eames episode, I would've braved the migraine. I like Logan, I like Barek, and I'm getting to like them more and more as I see them. And I'm glad their episode do seem to be written for their characters now rather than readjusted Goren/Eames scripts. And if Jamey Sheridan must leave the show, I'm glad he's getting a story line that appears worthy of him.
I'm not surprised that Whoopie Goldberg's villain is better written. She's a second draft--a character who's being written with the intention of a recurrence. Ms. D'Abo's character has been written a bit too much on the fly, and I think it's to her credit that she makes her at all believable.
I do have hopes for humanity, though, as MISSION IMPOSSIBLE III didn't do as well at the box office as expected.
Patcat
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