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Post by NicoleMarie on Oct 17, 2006 23:41:50 GMT -5
This episode has shades of "Proud Flesh" - a father favoring his "stable" son over the "goof-up" son.
Also - was I the only one who wanted to smack the guy who said "Well, now he's history" while discussing Adlai. I thought that was quite rude.
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Post by darmok on Oct 17, 2006 23:47:36 GMT -5
I thought it was a good episode. I did enjoy the first two G/E episodes more, but I agree that that much emotion three episodes in a row would have been too much.
They are giving Ross some snarky lines. He's has several good ones int the last few episodes.
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Post by Techguy on Oct 17, 2006 23:50:38 GMT -5
Nyah! I was the first to call out Carrie Preston's triple play on CI. No fair!
I have mixed feelings about this episode. While I welcome the relief from the emotional wringing of the first two Goren/Eames episodes, I don't quite get the psychology or reasoning behind the sisters-in-law plotting together to kill the other's husband. Missing segments here and there to tend to personal matters no doubt is a factor in my confusion. But I still come away thinking this was a parody of "Throw Momma From the Train" where Billy Crystal and Danny DeVito get involved in a dual conspiracy--DeVito will kill Crystal's wife and Crystal will kill DeVito's mother.
And Rip Torn's character Jules, for all his wealth and power, is yet another example of a dysfunctional family patriarch whose actions lead to all sorts of tragedy. Didn't we already get a glimpse of this kind of family values in "Proud Flesh"? So I don't get a sense of anything original going on here. I also find it hard to believe Jules is so willing to provide Lena with an alibi for each of his son's murders. He's got to be either delusional or have mush for brains if he can't put two and two together. Another problem I have is the photography--the closeups of Lena telegraphed her guilt right from the outset. Is CI so distrustful of fans' ability to follow the action that they have to resort to connecting the dots and revealing the killer's identity in subtle ways?
I also got the impression that Goren was a bit abrupt and brusque with Henry, the favorite son's boy. Yes I know Goren has been through a lot earlier this season, but he isn't so rote and methodical with young children, especially one that has been through the trauma of having to call 911 when he finds his immobile parents in bed. A little more empathy by Goren would have been appropriate and most welcome.
Eric Bogosian's Captain Ross continues to be the best thing about the episodes that have aired so far. He certainly is not just a substitute for Jamey Sheridan's Deakins; Ross is his own person who brings a lot of snarkiness and hands-on involvement to the detectives' cases. I'm really enjoying his role in CI this season.
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Post by mikeyrocks on Oct 18, 2006 0:01:09 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this one - IMO - the best Goren and Eames episode so far this season.
Great performances by all / AND great guest stars!!
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Post by NicoleMarie on Oct 18, 2006 0:10:01 GMT -5
Nyah! I was the first to call out Carrie Preston's triple play on CI. No fair! Ha! You beat me by 6 minutes!
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Post by cindylouwho on Oct 18, 2006 0:21:17 GMT -5
loved it. opposites attract and who knows why. by the book brother marries a slave to her emotions good time ne'er do well marries uptight socialite and they all disappoint each other while papa keeps score. goren and eames in great form.
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Post by sobergal95 on Oct 18, 2006 2:44:11 GMT -5
As to the thing about Eames's dad getting into trouble in retirement: in season one "Badge" she acknowledges he got into trouble for "double dipping"; drawing a pension from the city for retiring from the NYPD and then going to work for the city in another capacity (parks department I think?) and he had to make restitution for it. Also, it appears there may or may not have been some dirty cops in his precinct from comments made by a convicted drug dealer who was involved in a police shootout but claimed they were in on it in season two "Cuba Libre".
It seems the story was based on a real life situation I saw on Dateline. One financially successful brother poisoned by milkshake in China or somewhere (by his wife) and the second brother, a real estate embezzler, found dead just before getting indicted a year or so later. I cant remember if they decided his death was suicide or if he might have hired someone to kill him so the wife would get the money.
I figured it was Lena since she blew up her own kids a couple seasons ago; but didnt figure it for a Strangers on a Train type of deal. I thought it was a better episode than some have been although I guess I don't really get the purpose of the "stalker cam" being used in this episode: "Stalker tennis" during the teaser? huh? do they get paid extra for that? and did we need the "stalker sucide attempt" in case we couldn't figure out Charlene was messed up by the actress's performance without the fancy camera? I'm surprised they didnt walk us through Ted's murder with the gun/scissors/statue with the stalker cam.
My take on Goren's interaction with the kid is that he felt that Eames had already been talking with the boy before he came into the room. Wasn't the little boy about the same age as her nephew? She's got recent experience dealing with kids that age? Just a thought. They didn't show us how either Goren or Eames answered when he asked something like "so daddys gonna wake up now"? I feel sorry for both little boys losing their dads, and now Lena's going to the slammer so I sure hope Grandpa doesn't get custody of the least favorite grandson who is the son of the least favorite son. Henry's mom Charlene is a flake but at least she's alive and well not a murderer. Guess both will end up in therapy.
I'm liking Ross better with each episode, but is it me or does he seem to check in on the scene more with G/E versus Logan/Wheeler? He went out to the other police department with them in Siren Call and shows up at the scene of the "suspect turned victim in record time". Trusts Wheeler more since he worked with her in the past? Maybe just hasn't had reason to be in the field with L/W yet? He is also quite the smart alleck with some good "snarks" as you guys like to call em. I miss Deakins but am respecting the new guy as he is. Also, five episodes and we've only seen the new D.A. lady in one of them?
Good to see Goren doing some clutzy Goren things: Accidentally on purpose squirting the gardner with the fertilizer before pouring it into the coke. Loved it. At least even though next weeks a repeat it'll be two Goren and Eames episodes in a row, they're still my faves.
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Post by Cassie on Oct 18, 2006 4:58:12 GMT -5
Sounds like a great episode guys - Can't wait to see it - I have about 1 hour to go. Just wanted to comment on one thing Cassie said - Only Goren can truly appreciate the truth of the highly dysfunctional family, and what effect it will have on the children. Although I'm not denying that this statement does ring true for Goren's character / I don't think one can say ONLY Goren can appreciate this fact. We don't know much about Wheelers background, or Eames background AND we certainly know that Logan had a massively disfunctional upbringing as well. So I would say that most probably they can all appreciate the truth and effect of a highly disfunctional family. Perhaps it was just a typo on Cassie's part - Perhaps ;D I do feel Goren understands and can relate to the children. Remember "Bright Boy" and Robbie? I don't know Logan as well as you, But I will say, I was appreicating his blue plaid tie in Maltese Cross. I really wish TNT, would play some of the old Logan episodes, so I could better get a feel for his personal history.... This is the second time I remember a comment about Eames father doing something wrong during retirement. What's up with that! Not sure, but I want to know more..... and Mickeyrocks.... I feel she has issues with this, plus her husbands death, how can she not?? And it may be why she has such a dry snarky sense of humor Wheeler, Thanks to Filmnoir's clip from TV guide.... her skeltons will be coming out of her closet soon
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 18, 2006 7:23:27 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this episode too. there was tons of humour weaving it's way throughout - heck watching the botched murder take place must have been pretty humourous if you were a fly on the wall. As others have mentioned Ross was given most of the best lines in that department. I'm still not sure why he showed up at the crime scene or what his character is about and I don't think we need him as a third detective but hopefully a wily reason for doing will reveal itself as we get to know him in the next episodes.
I really liked this take on a dysfunctional family, dysfunctional because of an arrogant patriarch. Techguy is right, the father character, Rip Torn's character was very much like the media mogul in proud flesh but then again the whole premise was quite different from what fuelled the murder in that episode and I found it quite believable. (believable motives are not what LO:ci is known for - often they can be quite convoluted and I'm left thinking it would have been easier to just simply bonk the poor victim over the head in most cases...)
Missy Crider looked so familiar, it was like clue nagging me throughout the episode? Where have I seen her before. After her friend posted earlier on this thread, I looked her up in IMDB. She was in an episode of a sci-fi show called jerimiah, with Luke Perry that was on for a couple of seasons in the early 90's. My brother loved that show. She was terrific in this episode as was Ms. Preston. Crider's tearful interrogation at the end where she gives up her sister was a bit heartbreaking. She managed to show spite, sadness, regret and exhaustion in the same expression.
I really enjoyed this one.
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Post by Jefferaldo on Oct 18, 2006 7:24:56 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I saw Stephanie SenGupta's name in the credits, I think writer but I'm not sure. Co-Executive Producer and Teleplay.
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Post by Patcat on Oct 18, 2006 8:32:55 GMT -5
I thought this was a solid effort--not a home run, but far from a strike-out. Base hit up the middle.
I could have done without some of the camera effects. And I don't understand why Adlai ever hooked up with his wife, let alone defended her. History professors, even well known ones, tend to wind up with graduate students. And I also didn't understand how Ted wound up with the "good" daughter-in-law.
But I loved the STRANGERS ON THE TRAIN references (and Techguy, you probably know THROW MOMMA was a parody of STRANGERS), especially the tennis match at the start of the episode.
While I see the parallels with PROUD FLESH, this was a much more satisfying episode. I thought Rip Torn was splendid playing a man who did despicable things but was also dealing with a horrible tragedy.
I just want it on record that I wrote early on that people should give Ross a chance (g). I like him, although he does seem to be hovering over Goren and Eames a bit, but, considering she's still recovering from being kidnapped and he's just away from an equally stressful situation, Ross' attention makes sense. I loved Eames' "book club" remark, and thought that Goren actually liked the idea that his captain wanted to talk about books.
The plot's description had me concerned that we might see Goren dwelling on the favorite brother angle, and I'm glad we didn't. Just that look at the grandsons at the end.
And I suspect some scenes with Eames and Goren and young Henry might have wound up on the cutting room floor.
Patcat
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peachybc
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 109
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Post by peachybc on Oct 18, 2006 9:17:48 GMT -5
"Bedfellows" didn't do it for me. Neither did "Siren Call." Both episodes left me with a gut reaction of, "Been there. Done that."
While I've enjoyed many of the CI's Season Six changes, I am disappointed with the lack luster writing thus far. The story lines seem to be missing depth and have lost their previously wonderful plot intricacy. All three Season Six Goren and Eames episodes have been way too easy to figure out and often don't satisfactorily explain the psychology of perp behavior. I found this particularly true in "Siren Call" and "Bedfellows."
My husband (who enjoys mysteries and CI, although he rarely figures out the perp. LOL) figured out "Bedfellows" within the first twenty minutes -- right down to the "Strangers on a Train" reference long before it was disclosed. I said, "Uh oh...It took three writers on this episode to come up with a storyline that even you can figure out!" We both cracked up. My husbands response was, "Yeah, if I can figure them out and that fast, that's not a good sign at all."
I've been a CI fan from day one and I'm open to many of the new season changes. I don't mind CI shaking things up a bit with format, directing, tidbits of personal info, etc. I'm along for the ride, waiting to see what's in store this year. But so far, it feels like there's something seriously missing to Season Six. I can't quite put my finger on it yet either. Passion, maybe??
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Post by joanie on Oct 18, 2006 9:37:36 GMT -5
I thought this was a solid effort--not a home run, but far from a strike-out. Base hit up the middle. Patcat Ditto. Not one of my favorites. scene 1# Two women talking about killing each others husbands during a B***h session. scene #2 Later one kills the other's husband. scene #3 The new widow proclaims, "I was only kidding". Hasn't this been the basic plot in a few Life Time movies? Joanie
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mimi
Detective
Posts: 231
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Post by mimi on Oct 18, 2006 9:38:50 GMT -5
An episode with interesting symmetry and paradox.
Janethyland will love all those mirror allusions!
I really enjoyed that aspect of the episode. The opposition between the two couples, which, according to their personnalities would have made more sense if inverted.
Yet... it still made sense because opposite sometimes attract, and given the two men's backgrounds, it was logical that they would want to marry a person different from them. Daddy Jules didn't miss a chance to rub the men's differing personnalities in their face.
I loved that the writer didn't only made the opposition between two different persons and incorporated the opposition within one single character: Charlene looked like the bad girl from the outside, yet from the inside she struggled to do good. The other wife appeared to be good from the outside but inside she was rotten to the core.
I was pleasantly surprised to see how well-read Ross seems to be. He didn't look like to be as uptight as Goren. I should write "as cerebral as Goren", but the hell with PC comments.
Speaking of constipated... why is it that everytime there is a scene involving a sexual element, Goren is acting like his underwear are too tight.
When interrogating the gardener's second mistress, followed by the confrontation of Charlene and the other woman, he was looking at his shoes, acting like he would enjoy more having a root canal than be there.
It's cute on a six year old about to ask a girl to go "steady"; not so much on a 46 year old cop.
Warning!!!! The following is a completely double-standard, biased comment:
It's annoying to see that the G/E duo seem to be surrounded by an abyss of nothingness. We haven't seen a friend or an acquaintance of Goren since season one. We have NEVER seen a friend or an acquaintance of Eames that isn't related to her father. We never get a glimpse or an infinitesimal hint that they have a social life and should I get into the sex life... I think not!
On the other hand, we saw or could imagine that these things are present in Logan's life.
I don't fall into the category of viewers that mind the personal stuff, because when done with the appropriate dosage and integrated at the right time into a plot, it can enrich a story and more so the character.
Back to the episode...
I felt a psychological discrepancy between Eames and Goren. Eames seemed to be dealing with her trauma more efficiently than Goren. I had a sense that he was dragging himself from one point to the other, we foresaw some of the old Goren, but on numerous times, he just stared at the floor and seemed deep into his thought (and not as if he was thinking about the case) or he plainly looked annoyed.
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Post by mikeyrocks on Oct 18, 2006 10:06:34 GMT -5
Hey Cassie ;D -
I know here in Canadd we get to see alot of the Older Law and Orders on Bravo - I loved seasons 1 to 5. Mind you with the Motherships format you don't really get to know Logan so well - More like alot of great one liners and such. But in at least 2 epies or so you really get to see him shine - Indifference - from Season 1 / Confession from season 2!!
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