ladyday
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 53
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Post by ladyday on Apr 2, 2007 8:46:11 GMT -5
Perhaps Jules will, but I see him as having a more difficult childhood than Goren. During this crisis, Goren is not totally stable .
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 2, 2007 13:01:40 GMT -5
I see him as having a more difficult childhood than Goren. During this crisis, Goren is not totally stable . I respectfully disagree with you here. I think Goren's childhood was much more difficult than Jules' ever was. A crazy, schizophrenic mother, a drinking, gambling womanizing father. There was probably money difficulties as well, with the deadbeat dad not paying child support. No apparent family members around to take up the slack....I could go on. Both children in this episode appear a little naive as to how irresponsible and or devious their parents are. They are still innocent. I don't think Goren had a day of childhood innocence past the age of seven.
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Post by ragincajun on Apr 2, 2007 15:17:45 GMT -5
Ok who are we talking about, Jules was the old man, Adlai and Ted were the two sons, who I think had equal chances to grow up responsbly, But as his father pointed out after graduation Ted wanted to party and Adlai taught children to read, I think. Ted was more into get rich schemes. As for the poor grand children I guess the grandfather transfered how their fathers were onto the children. I think the grandchildren need to be removed from Jules and Charlene. I just looked on the epi site on Tv guide the kids were Henry ( Charlene and Adlai) and Jeffery ( Lena and Ted).
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 2, 2007 16:10:24 GMT -5
Thanks, ragin, for clearing up the names. I meant to say the Jeffrey's (Lena & Ted) childhood wasn't as bad as Goren's. Jeffrey being the "scapegoat grandson".
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Post by deathroe on Apr 13, 2007 9:32:17 GMT -5
I added some new material to my half-a**ed comparison with Hitchcock, bolded for your skimming pleasure Bedfellows and Hitchcock's *Strangers On A Train*: I rented this because I wanted to see if there were connections other than the overt storyline (in the 1951 movie, a man meets a tennis star on a train and suggests that they commit "criss cross" murders that would improve their lives. "Bedfellows" uses the same story line, with two sisters-in-law who "need" murders committed; there is a direct reference to *Strangers on a Train* in the episode's denouement when Goren finds the movie, which Lina has rented for Charlene, in Charlene's home.) I found that there were two ways in which the writers used *Strangers On A Train*: (1) motifs and (2) family figures and relations. (1) motifs: (a) carousel--carousel music is used extensively in the murder and final scene in *Strangers*. We see the two young boys on a carousel in Bedfellows. (b) tennis--we see the brothers, Ted and Adlai, playing tennis in the first scene in Bedfellows. In *Strangers*, the protagonist is a tennis star. (c) train alibi: Charlene alibis herself by claiming she took a train to a spa. Alibi-ing oneself via a train journey is an important plot point in *Strangers.* (d) Professor—the person who is supposed to alibi the protag. is a professor, like Adlai … albeit a mathematician. Antag. tells protag., much as daddy dearest might tell Ted, “People who do things are important.” (e) The title “Bedfellows” collapses “Strangers” and “Bedfellows”: “strange bedfellows (read “co-conspirators”) are a common theme in the episode, beginning with Adlai and Charlene, extending to Adlai/Ted, Ted/Lina, ultimately of course to Lina/Charlene. But not Eames/Goren, of course. We KNOW they’ve NEVER shared a bed j/k (2) family figures and relations: more complex adaptation, but still credible borrowing. (a) In *Strangers*, the protagonist's girlfriend's father is a Senator who declaims truths, somewhat like Adlai and Ted's father. He leaves in a stately house [cf. "family compound."](b) There is a focus on sisters in *Strangers* because the girlfriend's sister helps to discover the murderer. (c) The antagonist wants the protagonist to murder his father. (d) The father in Strangers isn’t very nice to his son, rags on him, much as the father in Bedfellows More directly: (d) The protagonist's wife is a chronic cheater, similar to Charlene. Lina tells Charlene, “We planned this together”—even though she perpetrated both husbands’ murders. This is effectively what antag. in Strangers tells protag. once he has murdered protag’s wife.(to reference another thread ... I couldn't find anything about water or a watering can. I might not have been looking hard enough.) ** I found the episode to be an enjoyable homage. Might CI be particularly Hitchcockian (or maybe just old school) in its use of exaggerated character??
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Post by Patcat on Apr 13, 2007 11:27:19 GMT -5
Nice analysis.
Patcat
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Post by deathroe on May 25, 2008 19:32:35 GMT -5
Dateline is (re?)running an episode tonight about one of the stories this is based on. Actually, it's two stories, about the murders of brothers Andrew and Robert Kissel , respectively in 2003 and 2008.The convincing parallel is that Andrew Kissel embezzled from his condo and (per the story) went out the back exit to avoid scrutiny. There is also a parallel between the Robert Kissel and Adlai (or as the actors would have had it at multiple points during the episode, "Adelaide") murder because of a "poisoned milkshake." [edit: ok, Nancy Kissel slept with the body as well. Seems like this one is "ripped," all right. Further reading suggests that charges in the Andrew Kissel case weren't made until March of this calendar year, 2008.] I suspect that the similarities end there since the writers are also negotiating the whole Strangers on a Train idea.
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Post by tjara on Feb 26, 2009 5:57:32 GMT -5
Sorry to be dragging this one up just to say: I didn't unterstand it. I didn't understand it at all...
I will go rewatch it during lunch, maybe I was just too tired yesterday to pay attention?
Just one thing that really struck me outright - the casting. Ted and Adlai looked alike, Jeffrey and Henry did, and so did Charlene and Lena. Whether coincidence or not, I thought it enhanced the story...
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Post by Patcat on Feb 26, 2009 10:53:01 GMT -5
Well, it does help if you've seen/read/know plot of STRANGERS ON A TRAIN (G).
Patcat
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Post by ragincajun on Feb 26, 2009 11:15:05 GMT -5
I didn't see Strangers on a train, but I did see "Throw Momma From a Train" lol.
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Post by Patcat on Feb 26, 2009 12:49:31 GMT -5
That could work too (g).
Patcat
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Post by tjara on Feb 26, 2009 19:28:54 GMT -5
Ok, one viewing later... I do not know "Strangers on a Train", so that reference went past me. Guess now I just reminded everybody of how young I am... ;D But I do think that I did understand the episode a lot better now that I did see it a second time around. I really was just way to tired yesterday. Basically, there's lots to like about this one. We get the intent and character development on the part of the criminals. For example I liked how Jules way repeatedly shown favoring one (grand-)son over the other. It creates continuity, and at the same time it was very heartbreaking (that last shot of the boy kills me!!). Though I think that if I didn't know about Frank, that conncection to Bobby might have slipped past me, too. On the other hand, maybe that's good - less angst shown. I think we maybe sticked to the gardener angle a little too long, and the part about him and the other mistress seemed a little contrived. (On a happier note, I also noted that this women almost stood eye to eye with VDO - someone posted this a few pages back). I was quite sure that Lena was the murderer from the point Ted was killed. Her reaction is so cold and composed, I just knew something wasn't right there. I didn't mind though... Classic CI is Whodunit + Whydunit, and at somepoint the latter will have to indentify the suspect, or else it's always hard to show the whydunit.. There were a few Gorenisms too dig in this one (especially the book club!), though when one compares them to a season 1/2 ep, you really see how VDO is "downplaying" them. A little less energetic, a little less accentuated, a little less pleasure expressed on Bobby's part. I've heard im state as much in an interview, but when someone is Season hopping like me, sometimes it really hits me. I'm starting to really like Ross, too. His wit and snarky comments are lots of fun, and I like his hands-on stuff. I still prefer Deakins/Sheridan, but Ross is just fine with me, too. Deakins seemed more of a father figure, Ross is more of a "friend". Eames seems to be back, at least for some part. I was so sad that they didn't show us how she talked to Henry. I would've so loved to see that one... but Eames and the Gardener was two thumbs up. She takes on those sleazy guys, doesn't she? Her mannerisms rang very true from what we also see in Brother's Keeper (with the callboy). The aria seemed a little packed to me. There were just so many people around... and Jules really seemed a little foolish, if not stupid. Providing Lena with BOTH alibis? Since they said they were going to arrest Charlene (dubbing mistake?) I really thought we were going to see the insides of a interrogation room. I wonder whether it would've worked if we had a cut-back-and-forth between Jules and Charlene, and then Lena's aria... but who knows... I just seem to think that something like that would be classic CI. I guess that episode really was about *opposites attract*, we frequently found ourselves confronted with them. "Good child - bad child", "Good son, bad son", "good wife/husband/daughter in law/mother.... and in the end, it was at least somewhat reversed, especially Charlene and Lena. But casting such similiar "types" in these roles was powerful. They looked similiar, but they were so different... This also seems to be CI's "lost kids" season... the little sister in Siren Call, now Jeffrey, and then the Amberleigh-story from Masquerade (on which I will comment when I've rewatched, I didn't understand that ep either...) So, now off to bed. It's 1:27 a.m. And as soon as I get the chance, I shall see "Strangers on a Train". Promise
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Post by maherjunkie on Feb 27, 2009 1:12:31 GMT -5
I thought it sucked. I only liked the plant watering scene.
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Post by ragincajun on Feb 27, 2009 8:43:23 GMT -5
My fav was when Goren talked to the late summer flower, lol.
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Post by deathroe on Feb 27, 2009 19:41:25 GMT -5
It's about Frankie and Bobby G [eta: I think. No need to be so dogmatic ]. Notice how touchy Goren is about all the scapegoating and about what scapegoats do when they can't take it anymore. You know, I don't know that all the complexity is especially subtle--but I appreciated the effort. I also truly enjoyed cataloging all the references to Strangers on A Train. I made a post about that, somewhere back there ...
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