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Post by filmnoir5 on Jan 4, 2007 19:48:53 GMT -5
I thought this was one of the best Logan and Wheeler episodes this season along with Maltese Cross and Weeping Willow. I have enjoyed most episodes on both sides this season. I would say Tru Love was my least favorite but I liked it much better than any episode of the mothership this season or better than most episodes of other US TV mysteries short of SVU, House, or NCIS.
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Post by outerbankschick on Jan 4, 2007 21:30:17 GMT -5
I think my mouth was hanging open through a lot of the re-enactment of the murder. Wheeler was definitely in control of herself but a little weirded out, just the same. Mike seemed ready to pounce in a nano-second if things got out of hand. Still, I don't know that I could be so nonchalant about letting a murder suspect act out the crime with me as the guinea pig. Kudos to Wheeler for having guts!
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Post by Sirenna on Jan 4, 2007 21:50:30 GMT -5
I thought the re-enactment was really foolhardy. After all it only took one crack to poor Mina's head to cause her death!
But it is a definate distinction between the partnerships of Goren and Eames and Logan and Wheeler. Logan and Wheeler are physical. Logan's interview style is to bash the ear of the vlogger to extract info. Their cases are more linear with clues leading to suspects, eventually whittling donw to the murderer and they get there by blunt gumshoeing.
Goren and Eames are more cerebral. They think before they leap and when they leap it's a two-pronged, well thought-out attack. When Goren runs into the lady in red, he's really blocking the view of the villian until he can manoeuvre the witness exactly where he wants the villian to see her. When Eames gets bellligerent with the villain in Baggage, it's only so Goren can come in and smooth the way with him. It's going to be interesting to see in what other ways the writer's write in their differences as partner-characters.
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Post by sarahlee on Jan 4, 2007 23:05:43 GMT -5
I thought it did come across as preachy in the begining. It was starting to offend me & if I still had christmas decorations to take down, I would have. However, I also agree that we can get too mired in PC and I DO like to see people stating flat out what they think .... just not in a TV show like this... ...I think this was a good episode as far as TV goes, but it doesn't have anything that would make me watch it more than the once. It was all so blatant and out there; so spoon fed - that there seems to be no reason to go back to it. ...but I don't expect subtlety from the L/W epis, or in this season...
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Post by madger on Jan 5, 2007 10:25:14 GMT -5
I thought the re-enactment was really foolhardy. After all it only took one crack to poor Mina's head to cause her death! But it is a definite distinction between the partnerships of Goren and Eames and Logan and Wheeler. Logan and Wheeler are physical. Logan's interview style is to bash the ear of the vlogger to extract info. Their cases are more linear with clues leading to suspects, eventually whittling down to the murderer and they get there by blunt gumshoeing. Goren and Eames are more cerebral. They think before they leap and when they leap it's a two-pronged, well thought-out attack. When Goren runs into the lady in red, he's really blocking the view of the villain until he can maneuver the witness exactly where he wants the villain to see her. When Eames gets belligerent with the villain in Baggage, it's only so Goren can come in and smooth the way with him. It's going to be interesting to see in what other ways the writer's write in their differences as partner-characters. Maybe that's why the L/W eps seem better this season, they reflect WL less sophisticated more straightforward personality vs RB's subtlety and finesse seen with his G/E eps in the past. Looks to me like someone is playing favorites, though maybe unconsciously?
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Post by Metella on Jan 5, 2007 11:56:12 GMT -5
ah, saralee - so you don't expect sublety at all this season? So, is that a change from earlier seasons? Are you just stating how you take it - or are you pleased or displeased about this?
That quiet statement is a heavy one. For me; it would mean; I don't expect this seaon to be anywhere near the layered, mysterious, thought-provoking episodes of old.
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Post by Sirenna on Jan 5, 2007 12:23:49 GMT -5
I don't know. I believe Rene and Stephanie when they said in their interviews that they write with equal attention to both groups. I don't think the writing is bad for Logan's team and good for Vincent's. It's equally good for both. It's just different and when the difference appears on my favourite 'Goren' show I can like some things but not others.
It's still bloody fun though!
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doctorj
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 92
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Post by doctorj on Jan 5, 2007 13:41:07 GMT -5
i wonder if it wouldn't take some time for the writers to get used to the new team? so that it might seem like they're playing favorites, when they're really just trying to figure things out? (i think it was stephanie who said that writing goren was like spending time with an old friend, or something to that effect.)
-- though, if i can have my say on this, i think logan's character isn't as unique as goren's, in terms of its conception. in fact, logan strikes me as somewhat... cliche. the hard-boiled, wise-cracking cop? i'm pretty sure we've seen that before.
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Post by sarahlee on Jan 5, 2007 19:28:26 GMT -5
...That quiet statement is a heavy one. For me; it would mean; I don't expect this seaon to be anywhere near the layered, mysterious, thought-provoking episodes of old. It's been said before, but bears repeating--"the intent has gone out of Criminal Intent..." The stories have been getting better with each epi this season, but they're CSI quality TV, not the CI I became enchanted with. I thouroughly enjoyed Logan on the mothership, and the L/W partnership is certainly more believable than Noth and Sciorra, but I still do not see cops like Logan-- "the hard-boiled, wise-cracking cop ( doctorj) and Pixie Chick Wheeler ( lovesong), on Majour Case. It's like assigning Starsky and Hutch to The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Not a good fit.
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Post by Sirenna on Jan 5, 2007 19:32:45 GMT -5
Re: the disparity between acting/writing teamsYes, I think it is a time crunch issue to some degree. I'm pretty sure the writers have been pushed to deadline harder than at any other time during the life of the show. Stephanie and Rene alluded to as much in their interviews. Rene particularly appreciated Vincent's use of props and wrote in scenes specifically to highlight his talent. I think the time crunch plus the slew of new cast members and new studio objectives means the writers don't have the luxury of getting to know the characters, probably barely enough time to get to know the actors. The time factor might account lovesong's percipacious attention to bad haircuts and too-tight leather jackets. Lovesong you have a keen eye for such details so yo might enjoy this thread
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Post by Sirenna on Jan 5, 2007 21:38:04 GMT -5
Romeo & Juliet are Italian and Muslim, and to give it some more racial tension they throw in violent Orthodox Jew's who beat up Hispanic day laborers? WTF? This is LO:ci version of the United Nations. ;D
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Post by LOCIfan on Jan 6, 2007 4:36:50 GMT -5
Finally saw this episode and was severely underwhelmed. In fact, I found it offensive. A parade of racial stereotypes.
I was so disappointed in this episode, I don't even know where to begin. The fact that the Pakistani brother was ultimately guilty of an "honor killing" was absolutely pathetic storytelling, in my opinion. Not only has it been DONE TO DEATH on regular L&O, and even much better on SVU (which I hardly ever think does ANYTHING better), but it was a total racial cop-out in an episode full to the brim of racial cop-outs.
Ick. I'm glad I didn't watch this episode when it first aired, but am sorry I even taped it to watch later.
This is CI at its worst. It isn't bad enough that the "criminal intent" has been removed from all episodes, leaving only superficial and cutesy interplay between Logan & Wheeler to take the place of actual detecting and psychological profiling (and leaving Goren angst over his mommy as a replacement for all that), now they have to even dumb down, in racially offensive ways, the so-called plots of the episodes. And even the plot has been DONE, over and over by every one of the L&O franchises. Sheesh. At least give us a new plot with the crappy, racial stereotyping.
Please, NBC, kill the series now, while it still has the recollection of its dignity.
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Post by Sirenna on Jan 6, 2007 16:02:58 GMT -5
Locifan:
Would an alternative ending and motive where, say money or misguided love, was the motive would have made it seem less racist?
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Post by Techguy on Jan 6, 2007 16:44:38 GMT -5
LOCIfan, I'll ask you the same question Sirenna did. Personally, I think this episode avoids the stigma of racial stereotyping by not singling out one group and by pointing out how we all are, or can be, guilty of this behavior. As far as "doing the subject to death" is concerned, I don't watch the mothership or SVU so I'm not familiar with how these shows have dealt with it. But you won't get any argument or disagreement from me regarding your observation that Goren's Mommy angst has replaced the psychological profiling--the crucial Intent portion of the show--that in the past made CI so unique and riveting to watch.
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doctorj
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 92
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Post by doctorj on Jan 7, 2007 7:50:43 GMT -5
Romeo & Juliet are Italian and Muslim, and to give it some more racial tension they throw in violent Orthodox Jew's who beat up Hispanic day laborers? WTF? This is LO:ci version of the United Nations. ;D LOL! -- i was thinking that warren leight makes spike lee look subtle.
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