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Post by gorensdoppelganger on Mar 28, 2007 14:51:22 GMT -5
In my humble opinion I think NBC is trying to compete with American Idol, Ballroom Dance Show, and The Unit, by having the episode go with limited interruption, viewers can't channel surf and switch to one of these show.
It was a good idea, I am puzzled as to why they didn't promo this change in format, except maybe to keep viewers from tapeing it and watching one of the other shows instead.
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Post by girlinblack on Mar 29, 2007 14:35:19 GMT -5
gorensdoppelganger, that makes ALOT of sense. I agree, and I think that it worked, for me, at least.
I actually really enjoyed this episode. For once, I thought that JN did an excellent job. I loved the ending. Her voiced sounded different, lower almost, it was better for her character. I also liked how she seemed less "little kidsy" - if that makes any sense.
Overall, I thought that the episode was well written, and well acted. Usually, Logan and Wheeler episodes seem so "fake" to me, but this seemed realistic. I was pleased.
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Post by ragincajun on Mar 29, 2007 15:07:55 GMT -5
In rewatching it, did anyone notice when the son woke up to the rap music his clock radio says the date is 3-27, which is the date of the episode played, but three days after his death? When watching the tape of the boy talking to the DJ the tape says 3-23 and Logan says you talked to the boy the day before he died so the date of his death is 3/24, which is the sat. night, and he was dumped at the court house early sunday morning which is 3/25. The clock radio should have had the date of 3/23 which was Friday's date, the night he went to the club and the date of the sentencing of the rap artist.
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Post by gibbsfandan on Mar 29, 2007 21:58:51 GMT -5
RC, that's weird. I wonder if someone on the crew noticed, and they just didn't have time to edit it, or what.
After reading so many positive comments, I wish I had enjoyed this episode as much as many others did. It just didn't work for me.
To me, the crime story didn't get interesting until the end, when it came out that Riordan had been visiting his grandfather in prison. I think Donna referred to something the guy got out of the relationship with his grandfather that was missing with the father. This is a very screwed-up triangle: the grandfather is an unrepentant con; the father initially appears to have concern for his son, but the paternal words and actions seem mostly for show — the guy seems more caught up in his career and his own appearance of righteousness than anything else; the son is approaching the big leagues of being a psychopath, yet he seems to have real feeling for his grandfather despite having none to spare for a dying friend. (The lashing out at his dad for not caring about his own father makes Riordan's character too inconsistent at the end to be really believable for me. Still, it was interesting.)
I think Trisha remarked that she liked the red herrings. I would've preferred that they cut most of that, and devote more time to looking at Riordan and his family. There's a lot of story that could've been told there.
In Goren/Eames episodes, weaker crime stories haven't bothered me as much, because I'd gotten intrigued by Goren's "iceberg" personality (90% of what's up with him is below the surface, imo; we just got glances from time to time as the currents shifted, at least until this season) and I wanted to learn more about major things that've gone into shaping his character.
With Wheeler, I haven't reached the point yet where I'm really interested in her backstory (even though I thought it was handled well enough, and thought Julianne Nicholson did well.) I still haven't really gotten past the point of thinking that Wheeler isn't quite ready for Major Case, and would prefer to see her grow more as a detective before the writers delve into her past. I'd also like to see more of the partner-relationship development between her and Logan, since he had difficulty in that area in the past, iirc. That solid foundation for "I've got your back" is well-established with Eames and Goren; with Logan and Wheeler, it seems like it happened almost overnight. (No "between the lines" comment intended by that, just a comparison.)
So, Wheeler's backstory just didn't involve my emotions or intellect as much as I think it would if I knew her better as a detective (and if she had Goren's charismatic personality), and it didn't satisfy me as a parallel plotline to the crime investigation.
Plusses: There were some very effective visuals in this episode. Someone else already mentioned the overall effect of the mob killing fields. Also, I thought the younger guest actors — particularly the two main figures — did a good job with their parts, and their facial expressions were caught well, adding tension and interest to an otherwise weak story in re. motive and execution of the crime. There was also a nicely done shot of Logan's pensive face reflected in a car window. I thought that was an effective way of calling attention to the workings of his detective's mind, and emphasizing a part of him that I often forget when seeing his anger and recalling his history. — Oh yeah, and the smoke curtain. Cool effect; it made me think of Stargate. That tied in well (if a bit obviously) with Wheeler entering a different world, one where murkiness of people's actions would find their equivalent in the murkiness she must've been confronting internally.
The limited commercial breaks were very helpful in maintaining my motivation to keep watching what didn't truly interest me. To be honest, if this show weren't CI, I wouldn't have kept it on past the first 20-30 minutes.
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okaadaak
Rookie
Wish I could understand German!
Posts: 32
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Post by okaadaak on Mar 30, 2007 12:52:19 GMT -5
I've heard so much now about comercial breaks in the American broadcasting that I simply got too curious: How many CBs do you have and how long are they? Here in Germany the show is about 13 min longer with 2-3 comercial breaks - which I just HATE. By the way: They're running 'In the Wee Small Hours' as the end of season 5 here - and then start again from 05/01. Drives me crazy!!! I've just watched 'Players' and likd it; but of course I have to rewatch it. The download was totally asynch and I'm having some trouble understanding what they're saying, when I can't see the lip movements.
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Post by NikkiGreen on Mar 30, 2007 17:08:37 GMT -5
...but I couldn't find an IMDb credit for teleplay author Peter Blauner so he must be new to the CI stable. I hope to see more of this collaboration in the future... Peter BlaunerI've heard so much now about comercial breaks in the American broadcasting that I simply got too curious: How many CBs do you have and how long are they? A one-hour show consists of approximately 42 minutes of show and 18 minutes of commercial breaks. A commercial will usually be between 30 seconds to 1 minute in length. And there are 4-5 commercial breaks within the program.
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Post by Techguy on Mar 30, 2007 18:26:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the link to Peter Blauner's website NikkiGreen.
A quick check on Amazon shows several of his works available at very inexpensive prices, so I'll probably put together an order soon. I very much want to read more from him. There's also a digital copy of PB's biography from Contemporary Authors for sale on Amazon. Interesting stuff.
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Post by Jefferaldo on Mar 31, 2007 3:25:55 GMT -5
Here is how it works: TEASER CB ACT1 CB ACT2 CB ACT3 CB ACT4 CB ENDCREDITS
so 5 commercial breaks.
Here in aus we get: TEASER ACT1 CB ACT2 CB ACT3 CB ACT4PART1 CB ACT4PART2 CB ACT4PART3 ENDCREDITS
which is completely stupid. there is always a cb in the middle of act 4 and another one placed randomly depending on the length of the other acts.
Anyway about the extended ep: Shows do extended eps all the time. Take The Office. I'm pretty sure its done at least 2 or 3 and its doing fine. The show doesnt do extended eps because advertising is not selling. They write a story and if they can't fit it into 4 acts without cutting out all the backstory then they ask the network if they can do an extended ep and they say yes and there we go.
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Post by lana0926 on Mar 31, 2007 7:28:07 GMT -5
Well, I just flat out enjoyed the episode. Other than having trouble keeping track of the "players" (which isn't unusual, with six grandchildren I have to run through all names before I get to the right one, but at least I remember the names!) I thought it was a great ep.
Lana :-)
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Post by mikeyrocks on Apr 1, 2007 14:06:51 GMT -5
I must first start in saying that I really really enjoyed Players.
What an interesting and complex episode - with as many important themes flowing throughout it as there were potential suspects to the crime.
The institution of family certainly took a beating in this one - its as if each of the central characters in the episode were off and isolated in their own version of reality - Well at least in so far as how they viewed the goings on within their respective clans.
Young Jacob who was so caught up in his idolization of a violent and glamourized culture - that his father's ( the Judge ) messages and influence fall on deaf ears. The Judge himself completely unaware of his son's level of involvment and fascination with this culture. Certainly a dilemma that many parents may face.
Then there is Justice Grady - who in an attempt to distance himself as far as he can from his convict father has also completely lost touch with his son - Riordan. Then there is Riordan himself - who for whatever reason is completely alienated from a father who gave him a very good life ( as Wheeler says - $30,00 a year tution and private SAT tutors ) AND instead aligns himself with his Grandfather - a man with seemly very few redeeming qualities. Why Riordan feels so much more connected to his grandfather is for the most part left a mystery to the viewer. Something that could perhaps be another whole episode to its own.
Colin ( the young African American Scholarship student ) seems to do a full circle. In the world he is living in ( the Private School and privileged lifestyle of his friends ) he is essentially isolated very much from his own culture. A culture that he feels the need to re-embrace in order to fit into the new one. Quite a dizzying dilemma for the poor young fellow.
Finally there is Wheeler ( one of our core characters ) her family is essentially no different than the others. Both Wheeler and the viewer find out simulantanously that her father Johnny Wheeler was living a lie. A lie that was apparently maintained by at least some members of Meagan's family ( her uncle Pete ) for at least twenty years. Perhaps if Wheeler had known something earlier the outcome of this mystery would look more favorable.
The only real relationships that seem connected and cohesive in this whole pot - is that of Wheeler to her Colleauges. Ross, Logan and Rodgers.
As much as the episode seemed to be about family - the act of imitation was also a central theme throughout. Jacob and crew - imitating their gangsta idols; Wheeler's father ( a man we never even see ) playing the respectable family man - when in fact he is a bagman - taking bribes left,right and center. His partner's son - a seemly concerned friend - who may in fact be Johnny Wheeler's most dangerous enemy.
At one point in the episode Judge Fenner states the following - "My son's murder was a tragedy and its turning into a farce". If only he had know how accurately his statement would play out. Althought all very tragic - the folly of those involved ( primarly our young quartet ) becomes almost comic in quioxtoic like proportions. Starting Right from the opening sequence with Jacob foolishly dancing in front of the mirror - this sets the scene for what is to come. The incredibly over inflated reaction to a minor fender bender ( yes these guys are bad dudes BUT their afraid of their parents ) , the racist yet almost comic posturing that goes on while they rob the bodega, the theft of liquor and COOKIES. Finally the attempted car jacking of a court officer - although tragic the whole thing does in fact play out rather comically. The joker on the card a nice little bit of foreshadowing for us.
In the end its somewhat hard to feel to much sympathy for those involved. Its Wheeler's story that is much more heartfelt and touching.
Julianna Nicholson was given the opportunity to shine in this one and did she ever rise to the occasion. Noth's Logan was also outstanding - making his usually boistorous and sarcastic Logan much more contemplative and understated. Quietly offering his support to his partner.
The images, camera shots and effects also did much to add to the strange feeling of isolation in this episode. Most of the camera shots seeming to focus on facial close ups / one character always standing significantly back from the others. The closing shot was particularily effective in this regard. Although her colleagues are most definitely there to support her - this is Wheeler's burden to unravel and she knows it.
Then perhaps as much as this episode seemed to be about family, or an imitation of such. It was also about choices and that horrible act of finally having to grow up and seeing the world ( and family ) for what if really is - no longer a child's eyeview of things OR a parent's delusions - but the real deal - so to speak.
All in all I found this to be a fascinating and incredibly engaging episode.
Hey all - sorry for rambling - I just really found this episode so intricate and interesting - I felt that there was so much to tie into it. I keep adding more and more and just couldn't stop. Come to think of it - I could still keep going ;D
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Post by Jefferaldo on Apr 1, 2007 22:31:07 GMT -5
Good post Mikeyrocks. I almost forgot they brought back Seamus Flaherty.
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Post by Techguy on Apr 1, 2007 23:46:26 GMT -5
Mikeyrocks, thanks for your thorough summary of your impressions and observations from "Players." Dysfunctional family dynamics is the engine driving the dramatic tension in this episode, and continues a theme that seems very prevalent and significant in this season's episodes.
OT: Harris Yulin is terrific as the menacing gangster grandfather. One of his most memorable TV roles was in the Star Trek DS9 episode "Duet" where he plays a Cardassian man suspected of being a war criminal during the occupation of Bajor.
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Post by Cassie on Apr 2, 2007 5:29:41 GMT -5
Hey Mikeyrocks, That was a neat read!! I too liked the episode, my favorite part was when the father, Justice Grady discovers what his son, Riordan did. Its my own prejudice I guess, but I feel most people with all that money and power would do their best to sweep what their kid did under the carpet. but I feel that this dad had strength and courage, when he said, "you can call you own public defender." That is what I really liked about the episode. I think this man/dad tried his best to raise his son the right way. by distancing himself from his own father. Little did he realize that once his own son could drive, he sought out his granddad. What I got out of it all is sooner or later, in life, it's all matter of our own choice, who we hang with and yada yada yada
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okaadaak
Rookie
Wish I could understand German!
Posts: 32
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Post by okaadaak on Apr 4, 2007 4:43:59 GMT -5
[/quote]A one-hour show consists of approximately 42 minutes of show and 18 minutes of commercial breaks. A commercial will usually be between 30 seconds to 1 minute in length. And there are 4-5 commercial breaks within the program.[/quote]
Well, consider yourselves lucky!! Here in Germany a cb ist about 5-10 min long. Just long enough to throw yourself out of a window or to hit the roof in anger, lol
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Post by mj2448 on Apr 10, 2007 3:18:52 GMT -5
I just caught a re-airing and because there were the normal commercial breaks, the entire wheeler/dad story was cut out. Even though I"m not particularly intrigued by her, I like knowing a little about the characters personal life so I guess we shouldn't expect this aspect of her to be expanded on in future episodes (?) . I hope we can learn some about logan and what has made him change from the way he was back in his L+O seasons. Or is that just age? lol.
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