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Post by blucougar57 on Apr 10, 2007 20:31:49 GMT -5
Okay, I have to get my two cents worth in. I don't have time to read all the pages of comments, so if I duplicate anyone'se comments, I apologise in advance. Firstly, I felt this was a good episode, but... WTF? ? Can anyone confirm (and if this has already been answered up-thread, I apologise - I'm on a tight schedule, and don't have the time to read everything) if this "Peter" guy is the same guy who popped up at the start of "Silver Lining", and trumped Goren at the crime scene? Just curious, because he looked very similar to me. But I digress. I have to say that if they are setting up a potential romance for Eames with this new guy, then great. Go for it! But if they're introducing him as a potential new partner for her, then *boo, hiss!*. I thought the acting was wonderful in this episode, but I found myself reacting very strongly to the strong suggestions througout this that they were testing the waters with a potential replacement for Goren. Eames appeared to me to be contemplating the possibility of working with someone else more than once, and as much as I like the character of Ross, I did not like that he was pushing her in that direction. The ep was good, but it left me with a bad taste in my mouth. The writers have 2 episodes left with which to redeem themselves... especially if the unthinkable happens, and CI is cancelled. I do not want to see my favourite show ending with the partnership of my two favourite cops hanging in limbo. I'll come back and post more thoughts a little later, when I have time.
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Post by gibbsfandan on Apr 10, 2007 20:41:48 GMT -5
Peter said (in essence) that he considers himself more of a community-service officer than a detective, and in fact his ambivalence about the high-intensity Major Case m.o. is obvious; so that would eliminate him as a possible replacement for Goren.
Also, KE has said that if VDO goes, she goes. I don't know if she's said anything different more recently, though.
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Post by blucougar57 on Apr 10, 2007 22:20:05 GMT -5
Peter said (in essence) that he considers himself more of a community-service officer than a detective, and in fact his ambivalence about the high-intensity Major Case m.o. is obvious; so that would eliminate him as a possible replacement for Goren. I hope that is the case. Don't mind if they want to introduce a decent romantic interest for her. But not a new partner. Not that guy. Not while Goren is still on the scene. That would be wrong. Do you hear, PTB? WRONG!!!! Sorry. Getting a little stressed here. For some reason, this ep bothered me a hundred times more than "The War At Home". Don't really know why, either. Also, KE has said that if VDO goes, she goes. I don't know if she's said anything different more recently, though. I recall hearing that. Interesting, that she would consider her time on CI to be linked so intrinsically with VDO. But they do make such a great pairing, and it's hard to imagine either character being partnered with someone else. After all, we all saw what a shmozzle those 6 eps in season 3 were, didn't we...?
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Post by deathroe on Apr 11, 2007 6:52:48 GMT -5
I think they want us to feel uncomfortable, for whatever reason ... I watched this again and had an “Aha!” moment. I think I’d like to retract what I said before about the episode being bleak and pointless. It still unsettles me, but I’m not as bitter at the writers as I was on first viewing. Here’s my new theory, and I don’t honestly think that it’s too shipperish. Go back and watch the denouement with the Eames-Goren partnership in mind. Tommy and Malia can most certainly be read as figurative for Eames and Goren. Tommy is afraid that he will lose Malia to the outside world. Similarly, Goren is afraid of losing Eames as he has lost others (father, mother, brother): *Tommy on Malia’s implant: It’s her life. I was okay with it. Goren: You weren’t afraid that once she got her hearing, she would abandon you?* Read Tommy as Goren—it’s Eames’ life, he’s okay with her having it, but not so much, maybe, if it doesn’t include him. Read Goren’s question as his own question about Eames: he’s afraid that his partner will abandon him, something he can’t accept anymore than he could accept her death in “Blind Spot.” If she finds someone else (I’m not saying that they’re involved romantically … just that their relationship is compelling)—if she finds someone else, finds another life outside the “cocoon” of their partnership, then she may in whatever sense leave him. Might seem far-fetched—but the writers pulled something very similar in “F.P.S.,” an episode deliberately referenced here with Goren’s desk-staring scene. In “F.P.S.,” Neal is afraid of losing his partner, so he kills to take things back in time and to protect his partner not so much from a specific individual as from the pressures of the outside world. Goren implicitly cracks the case in “F.P.S.” by applying his own feelings about a pregnant and absent Eames to Neal and Jack’s relationship: without his partner he has lost his bearings, is adrift, and he says as much. Same deal here—Tommy kills to keep Malia with him. The hearing sister who abandoned Tommy may be read as Goren’s perception of Eames, who is more normal, more practical, more in tune with the outside world than he is—if you will, more “hearing.” In this light, it’s very interesting that this detail helps to crack the case-also that we see Goren reasserting control over Peter at the end of the episode by signing. Even if my theory is crackpot, I can’t possibly be mistaking all those anxious looks at Eames—they start in “Albatross.” Doesn’t matter if they’re involved romantically: I think he’s being territorial. The episode seems preoccupied with the intrusion of an outside world, using everything from the deaf community to the changes at Major Case to as simple a thing as the image of Tommy and Malia skating. I’m sure there’s more to be found on the next viewing. Then, too, this is all very much from Goren’s perspective. What is Eames thinking? You never know. I don’t think she’s being icy—I do think that she values her own life. Sentiment aside, if I had to deal with what she has to deal with in terms of Goren, then I would wish to keep my independence. It is possible to conclude from this that, just as Malia will never leave Tommy, Eames will never leave Goren—also possible to conclude at the other extreme that the Eames/Goren partnership, or perhaps that the witty “cocooned” inner world of CI cannot survive an increasingly scary and irrational outside world, as seen in such offerings as “The War At Home.” I’m not sure pretend to read the writers’ intentionality to that extent. I think what is usually engaged in on CI is an *aesthetic* parallelism, rather than a moral or interpretive level: they lay it out because it is artistically moving, not because they want to tell us anything more definite about Eames/Goren than what I’ve suggested above. But it’s there. The writing is still smoking along, IMO. It’s good, even if it makes me unhappy. I really hope that they resolve all of this and that the partnership heals. It’s just TOO sad. ** Couple of side notes, also: (1) I think maybe that, if we read Peter, the third detective, as a potential suspect then some of the unnecessary soap goes away. They are required to keep questioning his intentionality and bias toward the deaf community. The weird interaction with Eames made me forget this on first viewing. (2) There were still too many untied details: what about the second murder? Wasn’t the red-headed ADA a prime suspect? All of these were downgraded in service of the parallelism I’ve speculated on above. There were not the usual multiplicity of suspects—or at least, that standard procedure was masked by all the soap. (3) And speaking of missing details, WHERE is the santa mug on Eames’/Goren’s desk? Its absence makes me very sad
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 11, 2007 7:12:37 GMT -5
deathroe,
Very nice post. Definitely food for thought, although I don't see Goren all that worried of Eames' leaving him in general. Just jealous of being out of the loop during the investigation.
The Santa Mug was broken during a break between filming of scenes . Seems VDO sat on the desk & knocked it off the desk by accident.
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Post by deathroe on Apr 11, 2007 7:37:42 GMT -5
That (santa mug) is the saddest thing EVER. Maybe he should get Eames a new one.
<i>don't see Goren all that worried of Eames' leaving him in general</i>
I really like how you've nuanced that. Perhaps he, like me, is in denial about the future of the show *s*
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Post by Patcat on Apr 11, 2007 8:50:43 GMT -5
Yes, Deathroe, a fascinating post.
I hope the Santa mug death is not a metaphor for the future (Ack!)
SILENCER is scheduled to be repeated on USA tonight at 11:05pm EST.
Patcat
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Post by Sirenna on Apr 11, 2007 9:08:40 GMT -5
Was I the only person who found this whole episode horribly depressing?
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 11, 2007 10:07:33 GMT -5
Tommy was a terrible choice as the killer. We knew less about him than about any of the other characters. There was no witness scene with him, as there was with Malena & even that nasty Doctor. His motivation was so NOT explained, that is rang false for me. He seemed to be a sensitive person, so him stepping on the Doc's throat to silence him seemed the act of a person with little or no regard for others. Sure, a person who is normally caring can do desperate things if motivated enough. But just showing us the picture of him with his sister who abandoned him didn't make me understand him or his motives. BTW, why do they cast kids that look nothing like the actor as an adult? That kid in the picture looked nothing like Tommy. Just like the kid in Masquerade (the video) looked nothing like the adult actor.
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Post by ragincajun on Apr 11, 2007 10:43:43 GMT -5
oh Geez gone a few days and things change, Read the post on the ads glad they will be gone soon, click on the page and " The End is Near Flashed" glad I am here after my angiogram and not before., lol, My heart is great no blockage, your prayers worked, Thanks all. now on with my comments.
Deathroe
I agree with the FPS parallel. I think Goren was jealous that Eames was working the case with Peter and he was being left out. He needs her to bounce things off of, she is his rock.
I am not sure if anyone mentioned this, and I was afraid to, but I am gunna throw it out there, At the skating rink when Peter and Eames where watching Tommy and Malia in there cocoon, to me it looked like Eames was jealous of their relationship and wished she had that for herself.
As for your side notes.
1. I don't know why Peter would have been a suspect? Just because he can sign and he has deaf parents? He said the implant issue wasn't a big deal anymore so he didn't think that was a reason for the murder.
2. The ADA was a suspect in the very begining but she had been working till 2am so she was taken off the suspect list.
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Post by deathroe on Apr 11, 2007 12:16:13 GMT -5
I saw that in Eames at the skating rink, too!! Not sure how Peter would have been a good suspect. Just meant--if we focussed more on him as a red herring we might focus less on him as breaking up Goren-Eames?? Maybe. Glad you're healthy, fellow CI buff
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Post by hannah on Apr 11, 2007 12:38:13 GMT -5
Yea I noticed it too. I thought she'd say something about it, but it seemed like a sort of awkward moment.
I wonder if we're going to start to see a softer Eames?
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Post by gibbsfandan on Apr 11, 2007 13:10:56 GMT -5
RaginCajun, glad to hear you're back and that the angiogram results were okay. LOL, it's good that the "The End Is Near" ad ran after your tests, not before.
Deathroe, you've definitely set out quite a few things to think about. Your reference to parallelism interests me a lot, because I like it when that technique is used well — especially when visuals and audio make a strong contribution to the effect.
I also agree with Sirenna about not just pasting a bunch of stuff together because it's thematically related. For a show of the caliber of CI, parallels, metaphor, etc., should have both plausible substance and good style. I know they can't hit the bullseye with every episode, but I think we need to keep pushing for the high quality of storytelling and production values we've grown to expect from the show.
It takes me several viewings to get to the level of scrutiny many of these discussions reach, and usually I'm either a bit leery of overanalysis, or else get distracted by a book (or whatever). Some episodes, though, really compel me to think long and hard about the various issues presented. — Well, I'm getting into general CI discussion here and away from episode specifics. Anyway, enjoyed your post.
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Post by Sirenna on Apr 11, 2007 16:19:41 GMT -5
The episode that really got me thinking "long and hard about the various issues presented" was Brother's Keeper. Not many of the others have been able to bear the weight of some of the analysis I've read which sometimes seem a bit too reaching. But that one did in spades. PS I'm rolling my eyes at the airsoft gun ad
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Post by gibbsfandan on Apr 11, 2007 18:31:55 GMT -5
You don't like the Airsoft Guns ad?!? Paintball is the coolest thing in the world after extreme skateboarding and dirtbiking! (okay, riiiiight...)
Brother's Keeper also did that for me; 30, maybe even more so, even though it's not as good an episode overall as BK. And Silencer has me thinking hard about issues related to the deaf community that can be generalized to others who have major physical or mental differences from those of us who take up the largest part of the bell curve. (It gets sort of tedious to deal with questions of what's average, the norm, and so forth.)
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