I'm thinking she went into it as a lover but the trip upstate opened her eyes to who he was. I do think he raped and beat her, and the experience changed her, made her less of a mother and a wife - maybe he gave her a reason for making her black and blue and maybe he didn't. Maybe the reason as he said it wasn't even for real (jealousy about her husband or some such) but something he said to cover up that he was incapable of being anything but a serial rapist. But she thought it was to some degree her fault. when she had Bobby she never could get over who his father was and what he was capable of but never realised Bobby was so different and really Frank was more the epitome of all that was negative than Bobby ever could be.
PS. This assumes a great deal that the perp fathered Bobby. poor guy but maybe he should have coffee with Olivia Benson, eh?
Post by diablodeblanco on May 14, 2007 23:48:46 GMT -5
The reason I believed Frank's interest in Momma's finances was self serving was partially because of the expression on Bobby's face when Frank was walking away after his question about them. I also base it on how quickly Frank dropped the subject once Bobby explained to him that she was on medicare and there was no $$. I also wonder if the weekend with Brady where she came back beaten and bruised, was the catalyst for her mental meltdown. Perhaps it was the beginning of the downward spiral, that first glimpse of delusions and unbalance that became Frances' life. Wasn't Brady's lawyer Frank Adair's campaign manager? She looked familiar.
I'm going to need another viewing--and some sleep--before I even attempt an objective commentary on this episode. I haven't much enjoyed Goren's personal journey this season, and so I'm suddenly clueless now about his destination. At the moment all I can muster are these quick brief comments:
As soon as Wally Stevens shows up, and says it's been 10 days since Goren's last letter--"longer than your usual pattern"--I was prepared to forgive just about anything. Finding out that Goren has been Wally's pen pal all this time was the most comforting smile-worthy moment of the entire episode--and the last one as it turned out. "Endgame" is a bleak nihilistic episode that is at the same time very difficult to watch yet impossible to turn away from.
The acting by everyone was superb, most notably by Vincent D'Onofrio, Rita Moreno, and Roy Scheider. There have to be Emmys in their future or there is no justice in this world.
It's a good thing we found out yesterday that CI would be returning next season. If "Endgame" had turned out to be the final Goren/Eames episode ever...it's mind boggling just thinking about that possibility.
Patrick Roy, 2006 inductee into the Hockey Hall of Fame
I really liked this episode. Although, I agree with Patcat - it was the trip, not the destination that I enjoyed. I wish he had kept control. The twitching was fine, but he shouldn't have lost it; he knew what was coming when he went in.
Now we know, Bobby did become his pen pal after all!! And NO NW this season (unless she somehow turns up next week)! I can live all summer till next season. Now if they can just somehow recreate Harvey and Marion! Will post more once I rewatch.
Post by girlinblack on May 15, 2007 6:06:37 GMT -5
how did we all (shippers and non-shippers) take Eames' expression when Bobby commented that Frank thought she was his girlfriend??
I must keep reminding myself that this IS just a tv show *s*
I think that she was confused. I mean, he's been pushing her away, and now, he WANTS to let her meet his mother. It was strange, out of nowhere. I would have been like, "What?" Also, I don't really think that she understood what he meant or what was going on in Bobby's conversation.
But, you know... even if she didn't get all smiley and giggly about it... she did stand up for him against Ross. She was so passionate about it. I've never seen her fight like that before for him, accept in ITWSH. Then, how she stepped back away from the elevator when he asked her to trust him, she seemed so desperate at first. I loved how she said something like "I'm your partner".
I'm with you on noting that if this was our last look at Goren it would have been too much. I have to confess that the great acting by everyone, right down to Bogosian, overwhelmed me. I'm still not sure I like this idea that Goren's biological father MAY have been a serial killer.
Heavens, this man has been ill served by father figures.
I agree that this story was handled exceptionally well, with a terrible, growing sense of horror.
And I think Brady wanted Goren to attack him, and that Goren's recovery of control was a demonstration of the detective's discipline. What I did not understand was the guards' inaction.
I'm way too invested in Bobby Goren's emotional well-being (g). Didn't get much sleep last night.
I actually totally understood the guard's inaction. Wow the DOC must be unhappy with their portrayal -- first "Flipped" now this. I'm still thinking about this one.. just thinking for now but I will say this - terrific!
Post by BegToDiffer on May 15, 2007 8:01:45 GMT -5
I hope I didn't come across as too sarcastic, but I think the story was obsurd. I really hoped that they wouldn't go the "who's your daddy route", but I can see that dragging on as long as the Nicole thing, neverending. For so long now, I keep asking "what next". I'm not going to ask anymore. LOCI as I loved it is gone and Goren as I enjoyed him is gone too.
I do agree that the acting was great. And Eames defense of Goren was good to watch. She was like a firecracker someone had just lit.
I don't think Bobby wanted Eames to meet his mother. I think he was just relaying that Frank wanted Eames to be there. As close as Goren and Eames are, I don't see them as spending time with each others family.
I have so many conflicted feelings about this episode. Of course, the acting saved it for me, it was all about VDO's portrayal of Goren. I love how Vincent doesn't care how he looks when he is emoting, like these so-called talents such as Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise etc. He looked liked hell & back. Exhausted, swollen, grey, and twitchy.
The pivotal scene when Brady is looking at Frances' obscured photo- telling him how he visited her when he was on leave, how he was there "that weekend" (have to re watch for exact phrasing)..then the build up of anger, fear, sorrow in Goren's face prior to the explosion. How does the man do it? Phenomenal acting, just brilliant.
Question: Was Brady saying "Do it! You have it in you to do i! No one will stop you."while he was being choked - was he trying to get his "son" to be the one to take his life? Was that the plan all along? That close up scene where his hand covered Bobby's - a father's lingering touch to his son? It's sad in a sick way. The man had no one at the end - just his lawyer. He even invited Goren & Eames to the execution.
Also wondering about that legal pad at the end with pages of detail. Was that supposed to be a keepsake for Bobby? Wasn't sure if it was NEW info or just a re-hashing of what they had already uncovered.
I didn't like Eames' reaction to Bobby's comment about his Mom wanting to meet her, & Frank having "talked her up." He looked at her & laughed, trying to make it light. But he seemed to hang on her response, eager for her to say "Sure." She just smirked & didn't answer him. I guess, as she wasn't watching his expression, she didn't really take it seriously. Another missed communication between them. Although in hindsight, it would be so awkward for the two of them if she had gone. Imagine the "twenty questions" mama would be drilling Eames with?
Jeez, did we have to see the last scene between Bobby & his mom as one of sadness, betrayal, & hurt? His last look at her, what was it? He looked almost sadly amused, like he did when she waved him away in the hospital room in TWAH? Or is it me?
And him sitting there, totally alone in her room, knowing that when he leaves that room he leaves visiting his mother for good? I can't stop thinking about it.
As far as the crime went, it was well done. A unique plot line, FINALLY. Having the second notebook hidden was a clever approach, as well as the corpses hidden in the walls. Good plot writing overall. And the scene with Ross & Goren going at it - such a real portrayal of their conflicted relationship. Ross "doesn't know Goren's needs," but he is trying & is more flexible than I first assumed. A good man.
The Goren boys called him "Uncle" as an endearment. I had a neighbor we were very close too as a child & we called him Uncle Jim. It's affectionate. I guess Frances really cared for Brady to have her boys call him that.