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Post by gorensdoppelganger on Aug 13, 2007 22:35:10 GMT -5
how long does one have to be in the service to get a pension? And can one get that while working another job?Patcat Techguy probably knows for sure, but I believe that any military service is counted toward the pension of a police officer.
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Post by Techguy on Aug 14, 2007 0:18:10 GMT -5
Military personnel can retire with a pension benefit after 20 years of service. The percentage benefit depends on time of service, the date someone entered the service and/or their age at retirement. Retired military personnel can continue to collect their pension benefits even if they obtain employment in the private sector.
I don't know how or if military service translates to time credit for determining a pension benefit if someone becomes a police officer after serving in the military. I assume it would depend on the individual police department and/or the state hiring ex-military personnel as police officers.
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Post by Patcat on Aug 14, 2007 8:52:57 GMT -5
The NYPD does offer some considerations for former military personnel; its website includes some of the particulars. As I recall, it involves some consideration of advancement, although everyone who enters the NYPD is expected to start as a street cop.
Thank you for the illumination, Techguy.
Patcat
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Post by deathroe on Jun 17, 2008 11:58:32 GMT -5
Last night "Dateline" ran the story on which "Endgame" was obviously based (that of William Richard Bradford.). I had no clue about this creep, who apparently turned to the jury after his sentencing and taunted them with all the victims they hadn't found. It was particularly creepy to me how much the footage of the detectives interviewing Bradford resembled the D'Onofrio-Scheider scenes in "Endgame." Since this was NBC footage, presumably, it's not too much of a reach to think that either the writers or the actors saw it. Also, Bradford only died in March of this year, which is presumably why this episode of Dateline only aired now, so that's just ... creepy ::shudder::
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Post by tjara on Jan 27, 2009 5:46:53 GMT -5
Ok, now the big post for this morning, the one I've been trying to avoid, yet I have to get it off my soul. I have to admit I did not read 33 pages of posts. I skimmed some, but I just couldn't read all posts, also because I didn't want to be influenced to badly before writing down my thoughts. I did get to see "Endgame" for the first time last night. Of course, lurking around the net, I knew what was coming... yet I wasn't prepared that this episode would hit me with brute force. I have very conflicted feelings about it, it's somewhat like a "love-hate"-relationship. First I have to note the fine acting. Bogosian, KE, Roy Scheider, Rita Moreno and of course, VDO. I guess it would even be better if I did get to see the undubbed version, but even the dubbing didn't take away from the performance, as it does so often. Now as for the story, I know how it will end, and I'm conflicted. I've been conflicted before that about the "your daddy is a serial killer" part before seeing endgame, and it hasn't changed. Though I guess, for Bobby it could make a nice "nature vs. nurture" arguement... I think the story has a few brilliant and a few weak points. A definite high is Eames "white knight" moment, but I'm really sad that they didn't carry it through to the end. While her speech to Ross seemed in character; her letting Bobby go alone was just out of character, especially after she made a promise to Ross to keep an eye on him. The "you've got better things to do" was pure tactic to lure Brady into giving up better information, I think. There was no attempt to save Bobby, it was interogation technique. As for her little smile when Bobby told her about his mother - I think it was amusement and Eames would've come to see his mother if Goren wanted it. She understood that Frank had given Frances the wrong impression, but why not meet her? I think Frances turned out to be the way I imagined her. I've only seen her in Brother's Keeper and Endgame, but I think she's quite lucid in both shows, a little less in Brother's Keeper, but more so in Endgame. I think we get a pretty good glimpse at what Frances was like before her illness. She definitely suffered no episodes of schizophrenia in the end, which I'm happy she didn't - she suffered from the long-term effects of that mental illness, but wasn't in the state of having it right then. I also really did see how much she loved Bobby, and she's clearly given him love all his life. Her reaction when he comes into the room, she lights up - it's heart-breaking! And I think she made the "prodigial son" comment because he had cancelled an earlier meeting with her. I didn't read much more into it, much less that she was indicating Frank. I now have to trouble seeing why Bobby made her the "suffering angel" in his universe, and Mr. Goren the "bad guy". Inspite of her illness, she loved and caressed him, I'm sure of that. In her lucid moments, I think she was a good mother, which would also explain why Bobby did become a good guy after all. It was when she suffered from schizophrenia that Bobby had to suffer. I also wonder whether her attitude towards Mark tainted her attitude towards Bobby, especially when she was in a paranoid-schizophrenic episode. She must have had that "nature vs. nurture" arguement with herself more than once... From my understanding, schizophrenia usually casts a long shadow before it's really noticed (before you really have an episode). If Bobby says he noticed it when he was 7, she proably was suffering from it well before that, long enough to be out of her mind to take off with Brady and leave her kids behind. We know she was playing mindgames with her husband before that, and these games could've been first signs of her paranoid disorder... I think Bobby understood in the end. It was so clear in the last scene, when he first pressures her into giving him information, but then doesn't want it - and at last, he takes her hand, he kinda accepts her plea for forgiveness, I guess. It became so clear how much he loved her, and I wonder whether she only could die after having told him the truth... Frank was made out to be a little scumbag, or at least Bobby perceived him to be. That look on Bobbys face just said everything... I wish though that they had cast someone older in the role or made Frank look older. He doesn't look like the older brother, it's even more so present when he's dressed up. VDO and Roy Scheider essentially acting of each other was fascinating. Scheider acted so well, you knew all the time, he was up to more than just his murders. I think though, that Bobby's burst was somewhat too much, if not unbelieveable. This is really were they needed Eames, because she just could've held him back (and they still would've been able to have him explode). I think it was a bad descision not to include her in that scene. And the prison guards just standing by as he was loosing it - sorry, but no, ain't gonna happen. I think some more things will come to my mind as I think further about this episode... so that's all - for now...
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eva
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 86
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Post by eva on Jan 27, 2009 7:32:28 GMT -5
I think though, that Bobby's burst was somewhat too much, if not unbelieveable. This is really were they needed Eames, because she just could've held him back (and they still would've been able to have him explode). I think it was a bad descision not to include her in that scene. And the prison guards just standing by as he was loosing it - sorry, but no, ain't gonna happen. I think I have to disagree here. The outburst wasn't that unbelievable, and the guards ignoring Brady being attacked, well, I guess that's not that far away from the thruth, either. Goren is a human being after all. He's been through a lot before this episode. I'm sure he didn't get much sleep in between caring for his mother, dealing with the brother that suddenly showed up, a new case, dealing with the question whether a serial killer could possibly be his biological father or not and so on. Plus, Brady is playing with him, provoking him. It was only a matter of time. He's exhausted, confused and angry. But he lets go of Brady as soon as he realizes what he's doing- what he is becoming there.
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Post by tjara on Jan 27, 2009 8:51:52 GMT -5
I don't know - Goren snaps, but he snaps differently... what we were shown here reminded me a great deal more of Eliot Stabler than of Bobby Goren. Stabler is the kind that will use physical force if provoked, but Bobby is a master at mindgames, he's much more mental than physical, though at times he pulls "nice stunts". Maybe this was supposed to be a reversed situation in which Bobby was the "victim" - so Bobby gets the treatment he usually gives to other people. But even if we concede that Goren would act as he did, I still would've wanted Eames to be there - to be his "voice of reason".
They didn't even really look!! At least they should've tried to talk Bobby out of it... it's their careers at stake to if Bobby lays hand on Brady in there. Cop killing a death row inmate isn't desireable at all... I think that Brady provoked the attack to get injured, but not to get killed - even though he told Bobby that he had "it" in him. Brady is smart, he knows the irony of the fact that if he gets injured, his execution will be postponed. Bobby's assessment that Brady is afraid of death is most likely quite true - Brady staged the whole thing to postpone his execution.
I noticed something else that I missed... we usually see important twists on screen. I desperately missed the scene in which Bobby skimmed through the album and found his mother's picture.
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Post by Patcat on Jan 27, 2009 8:59:52 GMT -5
It's difficult for me to tell how much of Frances Goren's behavior is created by her illness and how much is just her character. If what we've seen of her behavior--selfish, demanding, alternately cruely dismissive and pathetically needing Bobby--is what she's like when she's relatively lucid, I'd hate to see what she's like in a full blown schizophrenic episode. The scene of Bobby and his mother's last conversation, where she hits him and then clutches his hand, seems to be a small scale depiction of their relationship.
I thought Bobby's outburst at Brady believable. The guards' reaction far less so.
Patcat
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Post by tjara on Jan 27, 2009 11:16:44 GMT -5
Of course you're right Patcat - it's hard to tell what's her and what's not. But yet from Engame I was under the impression she loves Bobby. That's why she's so joyous to see him and that's why she kept such a secret from him. But maybe I'm just plain wrong, I'm not yet up to date on all that's mentioned about her.
I also don't know whether such a factor was considered when creating her character, but I know that schizophrenia causes patients to fail in the "communication department". They have trouble expressing themselves - saying thank you to their primary caretakers is usually one of the problems. So whether it was intentional or unintentional - this is what I'm seeing here. She never manages to tell Bobby how much she appreciates him being there...
To my knowledge, remission between episodes decreases as the disease progresses, so I don't think we ever get to meet the real her. Yet I think she was doing great in Endgame. It was the last "rush" before she died...
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Post by Patcat on Jan 27, 2009 11:48:32 GMT -5
I don't know. My own prejudices and experiences are probably coming into play here. My own relationship with my mother (I've written before that in order to have had a bad relationship with her, I would have had to have had a relationship with my mother) was not nearly as volatile as Bobby with his Mom, but as she grew older she was always glad to see me to so that I could do what she wanted me to do and tell me what I was doing wrong. I think Frances was just glad to see Bobby because he was the person who dealt with everything and she could praise Frank in front of Bobby.
A thought--I wonder if Frank had tried to hit his Mom up for money before Bobby arrived, and if Frances told Frank to talk about her money with Bobby?
I love Mr. D'Onofrio's acting in the moments just after Bobby and Frank discuss their mother's financial status. It's a wonderful combination of "I can't deal with this right now", "He's doing it again", and "Why does it always have to be me?"
Patcat
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Post by Patcat on Jan 27, 2009 11:50:04 GMT -5
More thoughts:
Would it have been better if Frances lied to Bobby and told him she knew Brady wasn't his father?
Would it have been better if Frances had told Bobby about Brady sooner?
Patcat
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eva
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 86
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Post by eva on Jan 27, 2009 14:22:42 GMT -5
I don't know - Goren snaps, but he snaps differently... Agreed. But this situation was an unique one. It's been a while since I've seen "Endgame", but wasn't there even the suspicion Frances could have been raped- or at least attacked by Brady, too? We saw a victim that survived because she acted like she liked being with him. Maybe she wasn't the first and only one. Now, I believe this and all the other things he had in mind at this time- plus being played by Brady- could make him easily explode. They didn't even really look!! At least they should've tried to talk Bobby out of it... it's their careers at stake to if Bobby lays hand on Brady in there. Cop killing a death row inmate isn't desireable at all... Again, agreed. But I wouldn't rule it completely out. Things like that can happen, though I think the guards would interfere before the inmate gets killed. Patcat's questions: Would it have been better if Frances lied to Bobby and told him she knew Brady wasn't his father? I don't think so. I think he would find out sooner or later and that would only make him more depressed. Even though it would have been a lie to protect her son, but ... no. Would it have been better if Frances had told Bobby about Brady sooner? Maybe. Yes, I think so. He would have been prepared for the little mindgames Brady was playing with him. He would have had time to deal with the stuff. But I don't think she can really be blamed for not telling. She was ashamed like many other women in such a situation. And in her own way, she wanted to protect her son by not telling anything.
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Post by DonnaJo on Jan 27, 2009 15:34:46 GMT -5
In her defense, Frances was prepared to take her guilty secret about Brady to her grave. In her way, she was trying to be a good Mom by protecting Bobby from this awful possibility. I would do the same thing.
At the end, she was too weak to lie to Bobby. That's why she was so angry with him ..."why do you always do this!" His persistence and the terrible pain of her cancer weakened her into finally confessing.
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Post by tjara on Jan 27, 2009 17:06:15 GMT -5
I don't think it's very relevant when (time wise) she tells him, but that she does. It would've had a bad impact, no matter if she told him sooner or laterĀ“. As for never telling him at all - that might have worked. Heck it worked for about 45 years. Though I think lying to him when he was suspicious wouldn't have been good. And I think she's physically and emotionally not able to lie at that moment. On the whole I think she's not really capable of "lying" - she lacks control of herself, and you really need to be able to control yourself to lie effectively. Especially if you lie a son who's job is detecting lies. evaAs far as I know, VOX will be playing two more episodes of season 7 on Wednesdays (Vanishing Act & Ten Count), then skip the remaining eps of season 7 (supposedly to play them whenever they head for season 8?). They'll be repeating the sixth season in the same timeslot, though for some odd reason they will not air the first two eps of that season. At least that's what I found in online TV schedules. But all going well, Endgame might be replayed later that spring Thus far, older repeats will be on Mondays, I hope they replay the other seasons after completing Season One in 4-5 weeks.
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Post by outerbankschick on Jan 27, 2009 22:14:39 GMT -5
The scene of Bobby and his mother's last conversation, where she hits him and then clutches his hand, seems to be a small scale depiction of their relationship. Patcat Nail on the head, Patcat. That scene sums up their whole relationship, IMO. She pushes him away only to reach out and want to pull him back again. The look on his face when she hits him breaks my heart every time I see it. He looks so wounded, as if, though it may have happened countless times in the past, this time she hurt his feelings more than any other time. And then there is that quick readjustment, and those tearful words, when he just keeps saying "Mom." and takes her hand. . . :sniffle: Going for my tissues now.
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