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Post by madger on May 15, 2007 8:28:22 GMT -5
Well, wasn't feeling well yesterday, so I went to bed at 6:30 PM, but I couldn't stand the suspense and got up at 2:30 AM to watch the tape, as you can imagine, I didn't get much sleep after that. I loved this episode, I was at the edge of my seat and my nails are little nubs. Even though the story was pushing the edge of probability with all the coincidences, the acting made up for it, and it is TV after all. My hope for next season is that, since VDO got to act up a storm, that he got it out of his system and we get our regular show back. I mean, CRIMINAL INTENT Goren will have all Summer to come to terms with his Mom's death and who his father might be, he can commiserate with Olivia and get back to work. I was so afraid for this episode, I should have trusted the actors to keep it classy. Wally, just a little nugget for us fans, I wish they had used him better, but I'll take any little crumbs they care to throw our way. Scheider was super creepy, the looks he was giving Eames, yuck. Moreno, what can I say, Bravo, Bravisimo. And they had the good taste of not showing us her death throes, whew, I feel as though it was a close call though. I only watched it twice, I'll have to re-watch again to get all the little stuff.
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Post by Jefferaldo on May 15, 2007 8:33:04 GMT -5
Yes, I get that but other than the obvious, I think the show tried to avoid hinting in any other subtle way that Mark was one of the Goren boys' father.
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Post by madger on May 15, 2007 8:36:04 GMT -5
DonnaJo, I must have been writing at the same time you were. I think Brady was saying "Do it" 'cause he wanted to have control of his death and mess with Goren all in one. What a creep.
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Post by NikkiGreen on May 15, 2007 8:40:09 GMT -5
Thinking back to a SVU episode... if Goren had injured Brady, then the execution would have been delayed until Brady healed.
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Post by nwchimom on May 15, 2007 8:42:15 GMT -5
First, I'm laughing here because just before she left for the school bus my 10 year old was watching a show on Fort Knox on the History channel. Bobby would be proud. On to Endgame. Episodes of TV shows usually don't stick with me for very long, but I woke up thinking about this one. Bobby's possible parentage really disturbs me. As if his back story wasn't already too much for anyone to handle...schizophrenic mother; philandering, gambling father who left the family; gambling addict brother who is estranged; mother is dying of cancer...we learn the following: - Bobby's mother had an affair
- Mom left her 7- and 4-year-old sons home alone for the weekend on at least one occasion
- Her lover turned out to be a serial killer
- The man probably beat and raped her on that weekend away, and she was "never the same."
So now we add all that to the back story. But we're not done. Bobby's brother rather clumsily makes a grab for mom's money, although there is none, and mother succumbs to her cancer. Still not done! Turns out, the serial killer might be Bobby's real father! I think what disturbs me most is wondering where the show is going to take Bobby from here. Will he ask for a DNA test? Will he turn to the dark side? Will he have a psychotic break? Will he become an alcoholic and an "ineffective police officer"? (Little nod to ITWSH there.) Even worse...will we see no effect at all next season?
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Post by nwchimom on May 15, 2007 8:47:02 GMT -5
Yes, I get that but other than the obvious, I think the show tried to avoid hinting in any other subtle way that Mark was one of the Goren boys' father. In her last scene Frances pretty much said it was possible Brady fathered Bobby.
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Post by Patcat on May 15, 2007 9:13:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure that Frank is the most reliable witness for the Goren family--and that's not because I think he'd deliberately lie. He appears to be a recovering addict--who's possibly not so recovering--and his grasp on reality is suspect at best.
My limited understanding of schizophrenia is that very bad episodes of the illness can be triggered by terrible events. Frances Goren might have suffered from schizophrenia before Brady's attack, but the symptons of the illness might not have been so severe until her attack--and I think it's pretty clear she was attacked in some way by Brady--and that attack sent her into a terrible spiral. And that descent was what a four-year-old Bobby remembered.
Patcat
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Post by mikeyrocks on May 15, 2007 9:49:47 GMT -5
I did enjoy this episode BUT not as much as many here did.
Although I did find the acting wonderful - Especially Rita Morena - I found the premise to be abit much - Interesting BUT just too over the top for my tastes.
I have no problem with Goren's mother having had an affair - the idea of his parentage being in question is very interesting and opens countless possibilities. But with a serial killer - I know that they did it to tie into the story - but it was just too much for me.
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on May 15, 2007 9:56:26 GMT -5
They walked a fine line between saying/showing too much and not enough, and I think for the most part they got it exactly right.
I do think Eames/Erbe gets shortchanged periodically in the editing room as we almost never get reaction shots from her "Do you think I'm angry" "My brother's really talking you up." We're always trying to peer over her shoulder and see what she thinks!
But as has been said about Eames from day one, LOYALTY is big for her, and did she ever show that in spades this time round!! Bobby's white knight. How far her character has come from the point where she was disgusted enough about Bobby to write THE letter to now... we spend a lot of time on Bobby's character arc... but think about Eames ...
And why do both sets of partners always seem to have heart to hearts about their partnerships while hanging out in front of the elevators??!! :0)
Anway... there's SO much to say ... that there's not enough words!
Everyone get out the popcorn and we'll come back for the encore performance tonight and shout Bravo and Brava. The performances were SO terrific from everyone from Wally on up. Talk about prototypical CI -- it only took four years to get an answer to the question of whether Wally GOT his pen pal. How nice that he did!!
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Post by musicwench on May 15, 2007 10:18:54 GMT -5
Well, here's my feedback. I am cutting and pasting from another post I made at the official NBC board. :
Wow, looks like this place was busy last night! I'm sorry I missed the party but I was incredibly engrossed in the episode and I taped it and watched it again immediately after it was over because, well, I'm obssessed and I absolutely loved it. That put me past my bedtime for a person who had to wake up at 5:30 a.m. If I'm rambling and incoherent it's from lack of sleep due to OCD over CI.
VDO and KE were in excellent form, as usual, and oh my wasn't Roy Scheider marvelous! He really creeped me out. The way he goaded Goren kept me on the edge. That scene where Goren chokes him was just so intense. VDO should receive an Emmy just for that one scene alone if not the entire episode! The play of emotions on his face just before he explodes was incredible!
Oh my, I'm actually emotionally drained from having invested so much hope in this episode. Loved the Goren and Eames interaction, loved the Goren and Ross face off and loved the way Ross gave in and allowed Goren to continue on the case. You could see his mixed feelings about Goren and you could especially see the almost paternal-like concern he had for Eames when he warned her to be careful not to let Goren take her down with him should it come to that. It was almost exactly what he started off warning her about in Blind Spot where he told her she worked too hard to get to where she was and she needed to keep an eye on her partner. Seems Ross is basically sympathetic to Goren but doesn't trust him to keep it together. Eames, on the other hand, really showed the ultimate trust in Goren and that was definitely something I'm glad they still have. Despite the strain of the last season it seems their bond is stronger.
This was a well-balanced episode. Everyone had their turn to shine. Rita Moreno, Tony Goldwyn and I was especially happy to see Wally Stevens again. He's been my favorite LOCI criminal since I first saw him in Probability. Mark Linn Baker should have gotten an Emmy for that role.
Okay, so I'm not a soap fan but my goodness this episode was so well done I couldn't help but like it. I know Warren Leight has been taking a lot of flack from people about this season but I for one have enjoyed most of it. Sure there were some clunkers but then there are gems like this episode that more than make up for it. It was a much better season than the last one over all, IMO. I'm glad I stuck it out last season and continued to watch (granted ITWSH made up for most of last season). I hope those who are disappointed with this season will do the same.
Here's to a great season finale. I don't know how they'll top this one but I am all set to watch and tape Renewal.
Will see if I can ramble more after everyone has seen the episode tonight. LOL I have to stop gushing now or I'll make myself sick.
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Post by diablodeblanco on May 15, 2007 10:32:42 GMT -5
I believe Brady was given the name "uncle" so that his occasional presence in the Goren household would seem normal. It was an easy way to explain to two small boys why he was there. When I was growing up the single woman next door had numerous "uncles" coming and going. I thought my friend, her son, was so lucky to have that. (I was only 8 at the time). I am going to have to watch the episode again tonight because there was one comment made by Brady that at the time I just dismissed but now I think it was another example of why Brady might be Bobby's father. There was the exchange about Frances and Brady being "together" on a special weekend. I believe it was the Kennedy election?? If that's right then the timetable for Bobby's conception would be right. November election=August birth. Frances DID seem rather bubbly about her outfit from Gimbles being the same as Jaqueline Kennedy's. So much to think about. It was difficult watching the acting and trying to mentally organize the details. I didn't want to miss any of it.
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Post by Cassie on May 15, 2007 10:45:53 GMT -5
I do think that Bobby's father ending up being a serial killer, is far fetched. But, if his mother wasn't dying at the moment, would the storyline seem more plausible? That a killer on death row calls in a cop who is the son of a woman he had an affair with. Truth is stranger then fiction they say. Actually, I can see Goren or even Ross (without Goren knowing it) giving the go ahead to others in the department to snag some of Brady's DNA for testing. I also wonder was his mom having one of her delusions on her deathbed. After all, with cancer, comes morphine So who knows what she was thinking. She still could have had the affair, that turn rape which caused some of her problems. But, for Goren to learn this truth, that part of her mental issues came NOT from genetics but due to some of the choices she made in her life. might in the end free Goren into stepping out into the world and having a meaningful life. Just a thought! ;D I still feel Frank was in it for the money. Where was he all those years before? Actually after seeing that scene, I would not be surprised if he had hit his mom up for money in the past, and if Frances shared with Bobby that she had seen Frank that day. Goren would be thinking she was having another daydream. IF they found Brady's scrapbook from the 80's in the home he grew up. His Scrapbook from the 60's by his fishing cabin. Where did Brady put the book from the 70's? I thought it was a great show..... but I do agree that there is some soap in my eyes..... Still I loved it ;D Next season though, We must find out ALL things about Eames and Ross too
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Post by Cassie on May 15, 2007 10:52:00 GMT -5
Frances DID seem rather bubbly about her outfit from Gimbles being the same as Jaqueline Kennedy's. So much to think about. It was difficult watching the acting and trying to mentally organize the details. I didn't want to miss any of it. that's what I liked about last nights show.... GIMBLE'S was a blast from the past! I completely forgot about that chain of stores. Other little things, while watching it, I kept thinking, that was good.... and I agree too, about trying to organize a persons thoughts about the show, was tough, that is why I had already decided that when I rewatch it with the hubby tonight, I need to take notes. I haven't felt that way in a long time
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Post by DonnaJo on May 15, 2007 11:07:06 GMT -5
I am going to have to watch the episode again tonight because there was one comment made by Brady that at the time I just dismissed but now I think it was another example of why Brady might be Bobby's father. There was the exchange about Frances and Brady being "together" on a special weekend. I believe it was the Kennedy election?? If that's right then the timetable for Bobby's conception would be right. November election=August birth. Frances DID seem rather bubbly about her outfit from Gimbles being the same as Jaqueline Kennedy's. So much to think about. It was difficult watching the acting and trying to mentally organize the details. I didn't want to miss any of it. Thank you for this revelation. I also heard mentioned a "special weekend" while viewing last night, and was like "huh?" Couldn't figure out why that made Bobby really angry & upset. Will really pay attention tonight to all details. It was too much to comprehend all at once in one sitting (just like the old CI days). And yes, I remember going to Gimbel's as a child. I guess Warren Leight does too. As Techguy mentioned, can you imagine what our comments and thoughts would be if the show had been canceled? As it is, I can't believe that NBC let this jewel get away, in terms of artistic control & credit.
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on May 15, 2007 12:08:31 GMT -5
Oh... one more thing that just popped into my head... it was subtle, but we like subtle
When we see Wally wandering around clutching his Bible... he's also clutching a palm frond cross.
They filmed this eppy I believe the first two weeks of April which would have put it around Palm Sunday... just a thought and it might not mean anything but then again.
Also, I liked that Brady ended up taking the verse Wally gave him to heart (or something like it) as he did end up sending Bobby that all encompasing confession...
And the math does work, Kennedy was elected Nov. 9, 1960 Bobby was born in August of '61.
Oh... and another good subtle link with the past which tells me SOMEONE is paying attention -- in "Want" Bobby tells Neil Patrick Harris' character that he used to ride his bike through the neighborhood and go to the beach and watch girls. If he grew up in Canarsie that puts him in just the right neighborhood to do that.
enough picking of nits for now. :0)
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