Ladyheather
Detective
An acquired taste.....
Posts: 441
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Post by Ladyheather on Jun 25, 2007 9:27:27 GMT -5
I also wanted to add that I understand this from a personal point of view. I was part of a group many years ago. The leader started acting like the main prison guard. I disagreed with him and was taken apart (emotionally) in front of everyone. People who I thought were friends, didn't say a word. Having manipulative people at the top of any group, is an awful thing.
I liked that Logan didn't leave his girlfriend hanging. He knew her well enough to know she got herself into something that she didn't know how to get out.
All the L&O's are political. Whether you agree with them or not. Writers write from they know and what is important to them. It is hard to make a believable story if you don't write from your heart.
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Post by Techguy on Jun 25, 2007 14:16:47 GMT -5
When I first posted my impressions about "Stress Position" during the initial episode discussion, I expressed some reservations about Mike Logan's suitability for Major Case Squad. I based that observation on the scene where Logan throws Goren's psych book apparently in disgust, as if to debunk the idea of psychological profiling. I also thought his remark about how taking on the head prison guard would be worth 10 more years on Staten Island was evidence that Logan was too much a hothead for MCS.
What's interesting for me, two seasons after "Stress Position," is that Logan's hot-headedness has been toned down a LOT. With the exception of two scenes I can recall--in the pool room in "Diamond Dogs" in Season 5 and the shoving through the glass in "Flipped" in Season 6--I think there's been a conscious effort to portray Logan as more mature, thoughtful, and world-weary. I also now feel that Logan is very definitely MCS material, as the street cop counterpoint to a profiling partner, just as Eames is to Goren. Whether or not Wheeler will still be Logan's partner next season remains to be seen, but I have no problems with Logan + profiler partner as a bona fide MCS team.
I also think that for all their differences in their approach to police work, Logan and Goren are very much alike in their pursuit of justice, and how they both overcame traumatic abusive childhoods to achieve success as elite detectives. They have a lot in common insofar as their survival and overcoming childhood obstacles are concerned. I also think that today, Logan won't be so quick to throw that psych book, or do anything rash to get himself exiled again to Staten Island.
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Post by Patcat on Jun 25, 2007 15:13:54 GMT -5
I wonder if Logan's contact with Goren might have anything to do with these changes?
Patcat
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Post by outerbankschick on Jul 14, 2007 23:27:29 GMT -5
"Group-think" taken to the extreme resulted in the Salem witchhunts and hangings. It's a scary, scary thing when one person induces others and the "pack" becomes a unit of destruction.
I liked the aria a lot because what it showed, as I think someone else mentioned, was that you can talk your way through things without "hand-to-chin" combat. I liked it all the more because it showed how the leader of this particular pack didn't have the guts to do anything without his little buddies to back him up. When Logan grabs the baton and steps toward him, "Mr. Macho" backs up a step, looking pretty worried, just like the coward that he truly is. Because only a coward would pick on the defenseless and abuse them.
A real man doesn't have to prove himself with physical strength. He uses it only when necessary. This is one of the things I love about Bobby, and something I think Logan has finally learned.
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Post by mikeyrocks on Jul 15, 2007 11:48:55 GMT -5
Yes very astute posts outerbankschick and janethyland - the group dynamic can be a very powerful thing. Only one small point that I don't quite agree with here Yesterday at 11:27 outerbankschick Wrote: I don't ever think that Logan reacted with violence as a result of some macho posturing. Rather I think physical violence is the tool that he was shown in childhood to deal with stress or confilicts. With both his parents being physically abuse - his mother with him and in turn the father with her. With Logan - I think getting physical is almost a gut reaction - almost instinct / like the flight or fight reaction. However - I do think Logan has learned to control his anger and therefore his violence better than he did when he was younger. But to me at least he has always acted with a sort of regret after he let it get the best of him - its not something he seems proud of. Mind you I think he controls it now as opposed the other way around. Now he will use his physicality as a tool if he has to but generally has it more in check.
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Post by Techguy on Jul 15, 2007 19:01:37 GMT -5
Mikeyrocks, I couldn't agree more. I never felt that Logan ever "got off" or relished using physicality or occasional violent outbursts. I felt it was because, as a young man and green detective, he was responding the only way he knew based on his childhood experiences. That's why it's such a pleasure to see the more mature, thoughtful, and world-weary Logan emerge the past two seasons of CI.
In many ways, I appreciate the character development for Logan a lot more than what has been shown for Goren in the same time frame. The subtlety of Logan's growth as a character was missing in Goren's story which for the most part came too fast and too furious. I'm hoping that once Season 7 starts on USA, there's more of a balance in how both detectives are portrayed.
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Post by outerbankschick on Jul 16, 2007 15:38:14 GMT -5
I don't think Mike ever thought it was a good idea to "go off". I think he reacted, as has been said, the only way he knew how. What I meant was that he has finally realized that what he learned initially, about what made a man a "man", wasn't necessarily the true picture. I agree that he definitely has matured, learned to control the hot temper that so often got him into trouble before. I have always loved the character of Logan. I've been a fan of the mothership since the early days and he was always my favorite, hands down, because of the depth that Chris Noth brought to the character. Someone upthread mentioned that physical abuse is also part of Goren's backstory. I have never read the interview where that was said. Can someone give me the details?
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Post by mikeyrocks on Jul 16, 2007 18:36:13 GMT -5
Very Well said outerbankschick I hope you didn't feel like I was jumping on you earlier - its just that Logan often seems to be a farily misunderstood character ( even more so since he joined CI ) - hence I can go a little overboard in defending him at times . Glad to know that you are also a long time fan of this wonderful character and Chris Noth's incredibly brilliant portrayal of him.
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Post by Patcat on Jul 16, 2007 22:47:11 GMT -5
Goren's history of physical abuse is referred to in the interview with writer/producer Stephanie SengTupa in the Cast and Crew Section.
Patcat
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LO:CI
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 141
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Post by LO:CI on Jul 17, 2007 11:33:05 GMT -5
Is there a link to this interview (must not be a video, the text would be great.)?
Thanks.
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Post by Patcat on Jul 17, 2007 13:38:07 GMT -5
It's on this board, in the ARTICLES AND INTERVIEWS section. You'll have to go about six pages in. The administrators of this board very graciously arranged for interviews with Ms. SengTupa and Rene Balcer, and both are terrific.
Patcat
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LO:CI
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 141
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Post by LO:CI on Jul 20, 2007 11:50:33 GMT -5
Thank you!
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Post by outerbankschick on Jul 20, 2007 15:54:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, Patcat!
Mikeyrocks, I definitely didn't think you were jumping on me. I didn't quite clarify what I meant in that post. I've got the first four seasons of the mothership on DVD and it's amazing to go back and rewatch some of those old eps, see the evolution of Logan. To watch him then and now is quite a contrast. The same character, but with even more depth and a certain "salty" maturity.
I still think Mike and Lennie were the best pair to ever hit the mothership, hands down. I've liked subsequent pairings, but those two together just can't be beat.
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Ladyheather
Detective
An acquired taste.....
Posts: 441
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Post by Ladyheather on Jul 20, 2007 17:22:00 GMT -5
Mike and Lennie snarks are clasics, what a great pair.
I think Logan stays in his place because of one thing. The reminder that he is one hit away from going back to Staten Island. It was a bitter lesson for him to learn. He really wanted to risk that in Stress Position, but he knew the reality of his choice. It was tempting.
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