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Post by Patcat on Dec 14, 2005 9:19:20 GMT -5
I was impressed with the twist given Nicole's character in GROW, that she was capable of at least one good act. But I also think the writers recognized that she is too damaged to be completely saved--hence the phone message she left Bobby, which, to my mind, indicated that she blamed him for the loss of Gwen and that Nicole would strike back at him.
The most obvious and melodramatic ways for her to strike back would be by hitting at Eames or Goren's mother, although Eames doesn't really seem to register on Nicole's radar (one of the Evil One's blind spots), and she seems to enjoy torturning Goren with his mother.
Patcat
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Post by aboutnici on Dec 14, 2005 17:29:57 GMT -5
Man, I don't think that she'll ever go after the man's(Goren) mother, because she knew better!
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Post by janetcatbird on Dec 22, 2005 12:07:31 GMT -5
Allow me to modify my claim: if Nicole Wallace is only mentioned in "Serpentine", but does not make an actual appearance, someone else can do the poll. (I'm not that piggy.) If Blondie really does show up for the--oh God--5th time, then I emphatically plant my flag. I'm running low on titles, so they better take care of the hoochie but good, and I mean soon.
--Catbird
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Dec 22, 2005 18:28:19 GMT -5
You know, I can't help but wonder if Wallace will finally succeed in driving him mad, she sure pushed him as close to 'the edge' as I've ever seen him be pushed in 'Person of Interest' (that reminds me, why don't we have a thread for that ep in the episode discussion? I looked but didn't see one). People have said on the various boards I' am a member of that Bobby is walking the fence between sanity & insanity, but I have always believed it's just an act, I think that he is quite a level person indeed... just quirky. People always tell me that I'm 'one step from insanity' But I consider myself to be quite sane, LOL.
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Dec 22, 2005 18:36:13 GMT -5
A lot of fans say that Nicole is going to be the one to drive Bobby mad one of these days, but I doubt it. He seemed to get better at 'handling' her every time she makes an appearance (he actually made her cry in Grow... something she had never done before).
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Post by Observer2 on Dec 23, 2005 18:49:05 GMT -5
You know, I can't help but wonder if Wallace will finally succeed in driving him mad... ...People have said on the various boards I' am a member of that Bobby is walking the fence between sanity & insanity, but I have always believed it's just an act, I think that he is quite a level person indeed... just quirky.... Goren has always struck me as a very strong person, but one who has not yet fully dealt with the effects of his traumatic childhood... and so he is vulnerable in certain ways. I don’t think he’s close at all to insanity in the sense of psychosis or any kind of major personality disorder. But he does show signs of post-traumatic stress, and his affect in certain situations implies that that there are major unresolved childhood traumas that are still affecting him. He also seems to be kind of stuck in the coping mechanisms he developed as a child; and while they’re still useful in some ways, they may also be causing problems. I don’t think Wallace is going to ‘drive him mad.’ But I do think she provides an added stress in his life. One of the coping mechanisms Goren seems to have used as a child, and continues to use as part of his ability to get inside the criminals’ minds, is the ability to see the positive aspects of a person in a way that is separate from the terrible things the person may have done. This ability would have been essential to maintaining a loving relationship with his schizophrenic mother, and we’ve seen evidence of him viewing perpetrators this way over and over again – perhaps the most dramatic example being in Want. This ability to see the human being behind the evil actions plays, I believe, a large part in his complex responses to Nicole Wallace. Among other things, it means that he can’t simply write her off as a psychopath, or believe that the surface of her personality is all there is, because he’s aware of the wounded part of her that developed her vicious personality as a defense against unbearable cruelty and emotional neglect. He’s able to see not only what she has become, but also what she might have been, and the wounded remnants of what she once was. That awareness of what she could have been is likely to be particularly poignant for Goren, because of the initial attraction between them. If she had not been so damaged, there’s no telling what their relationship might have become... I’ve heard it said that you can’t miss what you’ve never had... but I know from my own experience that whoever said that was wrong. And I seem to see evidence in Goren that he’s aware of what could have been between them, if Wallace had not been so damaged; and that he feels, perhaps, some sense of loss and sadness over it. Especially since he does not have a fulfilling, on-going relationship to take its place. And it seems clear – especially from his reactions in Want – that he is more alone – more lonely – than he would like to be. And that is not just because he has to deal with his mother and his job. There are many people who have demanding jobs and care for sick, elderly parents, and yet still manage to have strong, fulfilling relationships. I don’t think it’s his current situation that’s keeping him more alone than he would like to be. I think it’s the way he’s affected by carryovers from his past. In Goren I see a strong, resilient personality with many internal resources, but I see those qualities as being in tension with his unmetabolized trauma and some old coping mechanisms that haven’t been fully transmuted into traits that can function well in the adult world. This tension has been used before to create drama in the series, and probably will be again. The most common outcomes for people like Goren do not include “going mad,” although some of the worst outcomes I’ve seen are probably as unpleasant to live through (or die from). Still, the character, as established, is too strong and resilient to be likely to end up with the worst kind of outcome. Survivors of childhood trauma who have such strong, resilient personalities tend to go through some rough patches and often come out of them stronger and more functional than before. We’ve seen this kind of thing to some extent already, with the theme of issues with his father that was woven through season 2 and caused him some real problems in POI. Then, after his realization in POI, we saw him dealing with those issues with a bit more conscious awareness in season 3. So I expect we may see Goren dealing with various emotional difficulties over time... but I don’t expect to see some soap opera-style descent into madness...
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Dec 24, 2005 1:16:25 GMT -5
Ok, I have to apologize for my double posting above... my PC acted up & I can't seem to get it to allow me to delete it (the one w/out the pink writing). Just wanted to clear that up.
Interesting observation, Patcat. Which episodes has Goren shown symptoms of Post traumatic stress? Could you give some examples of where it shows up (just for my reference & so I can watch for it the next time)? Do you think that he really is lonely or just prefers being alone & by lonely do you mean on a friendship or relationship level? Because in the episode with the guy who stole for a living (the episode name escapes me at the moment) Eames mentions to the girlfriend that her boyfriend-the-thief was 'just like my partner.' & that he likes to be 'left alone to do what he's good at.'
Oh, I have just been to the USA network website & was very pleased to see that they will be having an all day LOCI marathon on Sat Dec 31, 2005 from 9am to 4am c/p the next morning.
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