Penn O'Hara
Silver Shield Investigator
LOCI Cowboys
Posts: 147
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Post by Penn O'Hara on Jan 5, 2008 7:15:38 GMT -5
p.s.
And why oh why on earth would Frank say something so gross and out there like "Why don't you take Eames to a motel and get it out of your system?" Where the heck did that come from?
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Post by DonnaJo on Jan 6, 2008 16:48:19 GMT -5
Penn, because he knew it would anger Bobby enough to distract him from noticing the crack pipe on the desk. Right before he says that, he covers the pipe with papers & envelopes. Frank's defensive behaviour and cowering in the doorway when Bobby crowded him is the reaction of someone who really expects a physical beating - perhaps again reinforcing the idea that they suffered physical abuse as children? Or.....this isn't the first time younger yet much bigger brother Bobby has thrown Frank around the room in frustration? Frank has a sharp tongue, and knew what to say to anger Bobby. As kids, Frank could have verbally taunted his younger brother, who responded in turn physically. I can see that, brothers get into pushing & wrestling matches all the time when angry with each other. Especially if Mom is mentally off in her own world. Frank also has been in homeless shelters. He could have been beaten & robbed in those places, it's a common occurrence.
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Post by outerbankschick on Jan 12, 2008 0:51:14 GMT -5
There is a moment, on the street, when Frank tells Bobby how proud he is of him and tosses out a playful punch. Bobby flinches away. This tells me that in their younger years, Frank was the one who pushed Bobby around. In Frank's apartment, it is clear he's afraid his brother is going to crack him a good one, and probably for good reason. It strikes me that maybe Frank was worried that his time had finally come and his "little" brother was about to turn the tables on him and whale him.
I tend to agree with another poster that Goren Sr. may have frequently hit Frank and then Frank turned his own pain onto Bobby, who was younger and more vulnerable. I also wonder if Frances was heavy-handed when she was having an "episode", before she was diagnosed and given medication.
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Post by Patcat on Jan 30, 2008 21:12:57 GMT -5
My apologies if this has been discussed, but I'm on a friend's computer and don't feel I can wade through all of the discussion.
Re. Donnie--Is it clear that he was at college when he got picked up for possession? I thought he was working as a janitor at the college--of course, he could be working and going to the college.
Is Donnie as innocent as he claims?
Patcat
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jan 30, 2008 21:48:04 GMT -5
My apologies if this has been discussed, but I'm on a friend's computer and don't feel I can wade through all of the discussion. Re. Donnie--Is it clear that he was at college when he got picked up for possession? I thought he was working as a janitor at the college--of course, he could be working and going to the college. Is Donnie as innocent as he claims? Patcat My impression was that Donny worked as a janitor at the college and that is where he met the boy who took him for a ride. Never said one way or the other. The impression was that Donny was duped into the car ride by the other boy so that if something did happen, the boy would be able to blame everything on Donny.
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Post by DonnaJo on Jan 31, 2008 8:46:35 GMT -5
I'll second that impression. Donny told Bobby that he was "doing janitorial" at Altoona College in upstate New York.
Interesting, how this 19 year old might have wound up at this New York college, working there but not enrolled? He's supposed to be from Pennsylvania, not a far ride from many upstate NY towns.
Could be he was enrolled as a freshman, but had to withdraw due to financial problems or low grades. He decided to stick around & work at the college to get some money together?
Sad thought that perhaps his mom is involved with another guy like Frank, and he doesn't feel welcome at home. I've learned from my job that many women who are attracted to weak or bad men continue to be drawn, or attract, the same type.
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Post by Patcat on Jan 31, 2008 8:55:39 GMT -5
A thought--perhaps what drew Bobby to Donnie wasn't just the blood tie, but that Bobby saw a younger version of himself in Donny. I've encountered some speculation that Bobby might have joined the Army as a way to avoid jail, and perhaps Bobby saw his encounter with Donnie as a way to save the younger man.
Patcat
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jan 31, 2008 20:11:31 GMT -5
A thought--perhaps what drew Bobby to Donnie wasn't just the blood tie, but that Bobby saw a younger version of himself in Donny. I've encountered some speculation that Bobby might have joined the Army as a way to avoid jail, and perhaps Bobby saw his encounter with Donnie as a way to save the younger man. Patcat Goren has had a soft spot for victims and if Donny truly was a dupe for the other college boy, then I think Goren would be inclined to help him blood tie or not. He might also see a kid with no father figure to speak of and see a little of himself. Maybe he thinks with the right kind of guidance Donny could make something of himself instead of spiralling deeper into the system.
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Post by Cassie on Feb 6, 2008 12:30:14 GMT -5
I have "On Demand" TV... (yeah, I know pretty much everyone does ) But looking at my TV guide selection on the boobtube, it says that LOCI, "Untethered" will be on at 9PM tonight.....however.... the graph for the schedule on the TV, looks like tonight that the show is starting at 9:55 PM..... So it looks like we might be getting the longer version tonight My theory might be right, or it could be wrong.... but I just wanted to give everyone a heads up if they missed the original, longer viewing of this episode
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Post by DonnaJo on Feb 6, 2008 15:53:01 GMT -5
Cassie, I checked my DVR under the category "Scheduled Recordings" and "Untethered" is taping from 9:00 to 10:00 pm, the usual hour length. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't the unedited version. Cablevision, my cable provider, has been known to make errors. Anyone else out there have a DVR or other "On Demand" situation that they could check?
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Post by GorensGirl on Feb 7, 2008 1:49:31 GMT -5
I saw this thread after I knew the ep would be airing on NBC so I've been forcing myself to wait until I actually got to see it.
Wow, well-done episode. My heart broke for Goren. Although I think he went too far, the sight of him crying out for water and then just lying limp on the table nearly did me in. What I couldn't figure out was the second time, was he really going nuts from the water deprivation or was it all just an act?
And I felt terrible for Eames too having to wait and wonder. Nice with the Captain pitching in at the end. I'm still new to him so I haven't seen him enough to really decide whether I like him or not. And I was so glad Donny didn't get killed.
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Post by DonnaJo on Feb 7, 2008 8:06:50 GMT -5
From what Goren said in his report at the end, that he was denied water & food for 18 hours, every scene we see of him from the initial slab scene on, his behavior is very real. I don't think any of it was an act.
The time line is confusing. It's actually longer than 18 hours, his total time in solitary. So that means at some point he was given some food or water, just enough to keep him alive? I don't think the warden would be stupid enough to deliberately kill another inmate, but who knows?
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Post by Patcat on Feb 8, 2008 9:38:40 GMT -5
If I've written this before, I apologize. I'm being lazy this morning and didn't want to go through all the pages of the discussion on this episode.
The major problem with UNTETHERED is that it exists to provide Vincent D'Onofrio a chance to act. Now, mind you, I enjoy watching Mr. D'Onofrio act and love the moments when he gets something to sink his teeth into. But the focus of this episode is on those moments when Goren is in Tate and suffering, and the result is that the process of getting Goren into that situation is less than logical. It's a bit unusual. It's my experience that LOCI episodes tend to lose some logic as they get near the end and try to bring all the lines of the story together, but UNTETHERED actually moves more smoothly in its later moments after Goren is released from Tate. As other have noted, there are a lot of holes in the plot as it brings Goren to Tate.
But the acting, by everyone, is splendid. But I have to confess I have a difficult time watching this episode. I've come to care a great deal for Bobby Goren, and it's very hard to watch him suffer.
Patcat
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Post by Techguy on Feb 8, 2008 15:40:39 GMT -5
I agree with Patcat. The acting here is excellent but it's more a curse than a blessing. My attention was so focused on Vincent D'Onofrio's behaviors I lost my focus on Goren. Crucial story elements were illogical and/or awkwardly developed, and so this was for me an incomplete and unsatisfying episode.
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Post by DonnaJo on Feb 9, 2008 9:35:28 GMT -5
So I'm not the only person out there who can't bear to watch those slab scenes? I fast forward through them. Like you Patcat, I wince watching Goren, this character that I deeply care about , suffer so much.
Techguy, did you see D'Onofrio & not Goren on that slab? I thought that too; it's similar to how I felt when watching VDO in the den with Wyzlenski in "Siren Call"
Yet another plot hole that I mentioned elsewhere. Why wasn't Donny put in "Heaven" when he returned to Tate's? There was time, Goren didn't show up for a few days. If the warden suspected he knew about the murder, she would have "slabbed" him immediately to break him, or kill him, as Donny feared.
That would have been more interesting, seeing Donny being tortured & Goren being helpless to stop it.
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