Thanks DonnaJo, deathroe, and Techguy for your thoughts on Eames' "you didn't listen" comment. It makes more sense, not a heck of a lot more, but more! I think Donna is right, it was poorly written. Or possibly more was said by the ex-wife, but was edited out. Maybe it made even more sense then. Who knows. It was an odd moment in an otherwise wonderful episode.
IEames: "Nicole Elizabeth Wallace Hitchens Haynes, whatever. All of you are under arrest for attempted bribery."
First of all, this line is such a classic. I couldn't help but laugh.
Do the victims get lost in this one? - I don't think they are any more than usual in terms of writing, but it seems like they are psychologically because our whole focus is on Nicole.
We tend to concentrate on Goren's reaction to Nicole (as will a lot of my questions on this episode.) But what about Eames, Deakins and Carver? What are their reactions to her? - I don't remember ever seeing a reaction out of Deakins or Carver and I'd like to. Eames just seems to have no patience for her whatsoever.
I can't recall a case where an individual NYPD cop has been singled out for abuse from the press. Groups, yes, but not an individual. (Maybe I don't read the right papers.) Would Goren be a target of the press? If he was, would he deserve it? - If you know the facts, definitely not because Croyden was murdered. But even without all that information, I think it was unfair because the guy had a screw loose and even though he didn't kill anyone he did do enough to warrant some heavy police investigation. And you can't really take it easy on suspects because you believe they're suicidal because they can always be faking it. As long as they're operating under guidelines that aren't deemed to be disrespectful of human rights, I'm okay with it.
Nicole appears to believe Bobby has been disciplined in some way. Has he? Should he be? - I think he probably got an official reprimand and I think it would have possibly been logical at the time, but I'd hope the truth was recognized later and he was vindicated.
Yes, I know we're dealing with fiction here, but just how realistic is Nicole's plan? - I can't remember all the specifics. From what I do remember I think it would be theoretically possible, but you'd have to really luck out with finding someone nuts enough to have a suicide appear credible and have them appear to be a suspect.
Why does Nicole feel the need to discredit Bobby? - I think for one thing, she resents that he sees through her. She's a psychopath/sociopath who believes she's more clever than anyone else on the planet. She can't handle the thought of anyone outsmarting her.
Plus, she knows Goren came from a rough background just like she did. I'm reminded of a quote of Hotchner's from Criminal Minds where he said that some people from abusive households grow up to be killers and some grow up to be the people who catch them. She realizes that if she'd made some different choices sooner, she could have been like him and not like herself and she can't handle the idea that how she's come out was anything other than ineivitable.
If Nicole didn't have to come back, could she have lived happily ever after with Gavin Haynes? If she hadn't felt the need to rub Goren's nose in her victory, would her role have been discovered? - I really don't think so. The solution really came out of left field and at the time she wasn't a recurring suspect. Now if this case had happened later after she'd made a couple of tries at Goren already, I think he might have been suspicious.
How did Nicole come to meet Gavin? He's wealthy--didn't he do a background check? - I'm thinking it's a classic case of love being too blind to think about common sense.
Does she love Gavin? - Truthfully, I don't believe she knows how to love.
What has Nicole told Gavin about Bobby? - I'm sorry, I can't remember enough of the ep to answer this.
Especially after this episode, how realistic is it that Goren would be allowed to deal with any cases involving Nicole? - I think it's a 50/50 odds. On the one hand, it's too personal. On the other hand, he has the most experience with her psychologically and I think he would be needed on any case. However I'd expect it to be more realistic for Goren to serve behind the scenes with advice and Eames actually conducting the interviews. I think she's got enough experience with her to handle it. But I'd never advocate assigning it completely to another team.
If they do bring Nicole back I'd like to see it start out as Logan & Wheeler/Falacci's case and then it turn into a two-hour joint case with everyone working in conjunction.
What's Nicole's body count after this episode? - I honestly can't remember.
Is there any significance to the fact both Nicole and Eames are small blondes? - I'm assuming no, but I don't know for sure.
Why is Nicole obsessed with Bobby? Are there other Bobbies in her life? - The same as I said above - she finally has met her intellectual match and he's a reflection of what she could have become.
Is this the first time Bobby has been hit so hard by an opponent? - I think the one where they let the victim wear a wire into a hotel and she wound up killing the guy instead and he blamed himself by saying she wasn't ready came close, but as far as the criminal themself, this was the worst. And I hope it stays that way, because I just find her agitating more than interesting. It's one thing when the main character is just obsessed and agitated, but they go past that and into hurt. And that almost feels like she's really getting the better of him and I hate that.
Heroes are frequently defined by their villains. How does Nicole define Bobby? - I don't like to think of her defining him in any way, shape, or form. If I had to pick, I'd say she shows his weaknesses, but I prefer not to think about it.
Post by ragincajun on May 18, 2008 10:09:35 GMT -5
I think Goren was attracked to the sparkling little Girl, Nicole protrayed in the beginning, and maybe the woman she could have been if she hadn't been abused by her father, then if she hadn't hooked up with Bernard, who we didn't know about at this point, I think he realized what she was ( a killer) but also she was a victim too. But he also realizes its too late to change her, she is what she is a sociopath, no remorse. She will continue to kill to get what she wants. She is like a black widow spider, she hunts, she wraps up her pray then, kills, she knows how to get into their minds and finds their weaknesses, thats how she throws off Bobby, and the only way to get at her is to let her in, he lets her in where even Eames hasn't been. He hasn't shared some of his personal life with Eames, but is forced to share it with this stranger, to try to catch her, it leaves him with open wounds, drops his guard, leaving him exposed, something he isn't used to, but it doesn't get him the killer, so now she is back, those wounds are still their, she knows it, she has those wounds too, he made her face the abuse from her father, she wants him to pay, so she brings in a man like his father and then gets him blamed for the suicide. Once again, they face off, re exposing those wounds, and he thinks finally he has got her, but she leaves, saying this is not the end of you and me Bobby, and later we find out, she gets off again.
I just watched a Frontline episode on PBS that investigated this case and the "supposed conclusions". If the episode is correct the FBI really botched this case from the beginning. The first suspect they hounded and even announced his name on TV as a "person of interest" he successfully sued the FBI and got several million in compensation. The second suspect that they had and still insist is guilty was a scientist with a history of mental problems who eventually committed suicide under the intense pressure the FBI put him under. The scientific evidence against him doesn't stand up and there was perfectly reasonable explanations for the circumstantial evidence. I feel the man was innocent and that the real culprit is still out their. The show was fascinating and I would encourage those interested to check their local PBS listings, PBS often repeats episodes several times a week.