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Post by deathroe on Jun 22, 2008 21:06:08 GMT -5
Hmmm, so what do people think? I saw a genuine attempt at being sufficiently old-school twisty and turny, with the "criminal intent" telegraphed and all--and we were certainly kept guessing until the end about the bodies (in fact, we still don't know where they are). That said, I called Red Dress Chick's involvement at 9:32 on the nose, if not sooner ...
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jun 22, 2008 21:09:28 GMT -5
Goren needs a new wardrobe. And a shave.
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Post by outerbankschick on Jun 22, 2008 21:20:22 GMT -5
I pegged Kathy for being involved early on, too. Roy was way too obvious (though Eric Roberts is always wonderful as a bad guy), though I did wonder if Woody killed Avery and Kathy really was covering for him. That's how I thought it was playing out, until the information about the judge's death was dealt with.
This was a great epi. The story was well-told, I thought, and I liked that for once, Captain Ross was the one making things too personal. It's a nice parallel between him and Goren, how they both have those "blind spots" and have such a hard time admitting it.
I also loved that exchange outside the abandoned building. "You're exactly right. . .I'm just saying. . .you're right. . ." Bobby doing his best to make things right in the only way he knows how. And Alex was still the mediator when things got tense, as in her "Moving on?" comment after Captain Ross got his feather's ruffled. Had to have been a kick in the gut to realize that Bobby was right about this one.
And may I say, on a completely frivolous note, VDO looked SMOKIN' HOT tonight! I suppose that beard will disappear soon, but oh do I wish he would keep it! YOWSA!
Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled programming. . .
I wonder what Rogers was thinking in that quick little shot they gave us of her face when Ross left the room. I half-expected her to get out of the van right behind Ross during the aria.
Any thoughts about how now all three of the main players have had their illusions about someone they respect completely shattered in the last two seasons? First, Bobby's mentor Declan Gage, then Alex's feminist hero (I'm totally stumped as to what her name is at the moment), and now Ross with his ex, who he also thought was a great true-crime writer, a good cop, too, in addition to thinking she was a good person. All three of them have now been seriously let down by people they respected and at one time looked up to.
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Post by deathroe on Jun 22, 2008 21:25:13 GMT -5
I don't know, Diablo. He looked pretty hot to me ...
Couple of other things:
--This may bring the Eames haters back out of the woodwork, but I thought she was wonderful.
--I see the logic of them still being out synch. It still makes me sad, though. He's being such a guyyyyyyy. She's being such a giiiiiiirllll. That look she gives him after the first scene with Ross. Oh, man, I have been there!
--Did we really need the gratuitous fleshpot-ism at the beginning, specially since we weren't going to see those two again?
--Here we saw the tables turned and Goren showing concern for Ross. He even called him "Sir." I liked the dynamic. I also liked Eames' various interventions in it. It also showed up the homosociality to which Eames is (abidingly) so sensitive.
--The scene with Rodgers was interesting--her at one end of the table and Ross at the other (since this ep is at least partially "all about" Ross.) Dunno if Ross deserves Rodgers after this one, though; she's such a badass!
--However, Ross is a great character. Bogo. is great. I love how he's just snuck in and "plays well" with KE and VDO.
--Eames palming the sex tape off on Goren was a classic.
--Lots of wit in this one. A for effort in that direction.
--We got another fake L&O institution in the form of shipping company "DJL." Watch them ruin it by having something go DHL next time.
--Erbe's wry smile at the supposition that Avery was off on an island someplace was, likewise, classic.
--Major Case "leaks like a sieve"? Really?
--Despite the care that obviously went into the plot, I felt the "judge ex machina" at the end was kind of gratuitous, tbh. And I'm pretty sure t(based on my enthuiastic consumption of the L&O) that two hubbies down doesn't make Red Dress Chick a "serial killer," and that Ross should have known that. But whatever. I enjoyed it, even though my little closet shipper heart is still broken, dammit.
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Post by deathroe on Jun 22, 2008 21:27:54 GMT -5
Outerbankschick, stunning point about the 3 protags and their respective blind spots. That was just super cute (see "closet shipper," above ). And very nicely played.
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Post by outerbankschick on Jun 22, 2008 21:36:59 GMT -5
Outerbankschick, stunning point about the 3 protags and their respective blind spots. That was just super cute (see "closet shipper," above ). And very nicely played. It was completely adorable how he kept pushing the words out. Trying to break through the ice she still kept throwing his way. I liked that things weren't just automatically okay, though. IRL, it takes time to work off a mad, and that's all Alex is doing. By the end, she seems a little less chilly with him. Ross needed a few minutes alone there at the end and when they cut to the look on Bobby's face, he really looks like he wishes this time he'd been wrong. And did you see the way he took that tape with two fingers. . .as though he was saying, Ewww! It cracked me up!
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Post by deathroe on Jun 22, 2008 21:43:00 GMT -5
Ross needed a few minutes alone there at the end
It was really nice to see some range in Bogosian's acting. I really like how with the new set-up they all seem to be pushing each other to perform at some really high level. It is indeed one of the "realest" things on tv.
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Post by Patcat on Jun 22, 2008 22:31:55 GMT -5
To get the superficial out of the way--I liked the longer hair. But let's cut the beard and get the suits back (g).
I didn't think Kathy was really an ex of Ross--I get the sense she was an "almost."
Bogosian and Erbe were front and center in this episode, and they responded with very fine performances. She was very much the senior partner. And I liked the way D'Onofrio played and Goren was written. I think he wants to repair the relationship with Eames and feels gratitude to Ross. He was unusually careful in his dealings with both of them. I noticed he made a particular point to refer to Ross as "Captain" and "Sir". And in that final confrontation with Kathy, Goren was almost back to usual.
Boy, all of these people seemed to deserve each other.
Patcat
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lovesong
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 98
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Post by lovesong on Jun 22, 2008 22:33:34 GMT -5
"Bullwinkle," lmao
otherwise, :yawn: a nonstarter. Wasn't even interesting enough to comment on really. :shrug, changes channel:
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Post by outerbankschick on Jun 22, 2008 22:51:25 GMT -5
I thought the "Bullwinkle" crack was kind of stupid, though. It came out of left field, since Bobby hadn't said a word yet (onscreen). So, as the viewer, you're left wondering "HUH?"
It made me giggle, but I was more interested in what happened before that, to provoke the comment to begin with.
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Post by outerbankschick on Jun 22, 2008 22:55:43 GMT -5
To get the superficial out of the way--I liked the longer hair. But let's cut the beard and get the suits back (g). I didn't think Kathy was really an ex of Ross--I get the sense she was an "almost." Bogosian and Erbe were front and center in this episode, and they responded with very fine performances. She was very much the senior partner. And I liked the way D'Onofrio played and Goren was written. I think he wants to repair the relationship with Eames and feels gratitude to Ross. He was unusually careful in his dealings with both of them. I noticed he made a particular point to refer to Ross as "Captain" and "Sir". And in that final confrontation with Kathy, Goren was almost back to usual. Boy, all of these people seemed to deserve each other. Patcat Bobby did seem back to the usual, especially with the way he postitioned himself almost right in her face. And poked at her with the very parts of herself where she was weakest. Classic Goren tactics. And he was very careful around both Eames and Ross, doing his best to repair his partnership with Eames and give the Captain the respect he deserved. I also LOVED Ross's very heartfelt "Go to hell!" I was darn near to clapping!
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Post by deathroe on Jun 22, 2008 23:16:10 GMT -5
Heh--can someone relink the original scene we had where they brought up "Bullwinkle"? Was it the same scene, or revised, because I feel like it "flowed" better there ...
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Post by deathroe on Jun 23, 2008 0:08:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I watched it again. Brief observations on second viewing: --Ross’s pained look when Goren mentions Kathy’s husband's age. Nicely played. --The scene where Roy talks about “filet mignon” and “ground chuck” mirrors the one in “Silver Lining” where Sheila and Eames (and then Goren) talk about women being “meatloaf” and “prime rib.” Interesting connection, because there is more revelation about Eames in both scenes. Roy tries unsuccessfully to play on Eames’ vulnerability—and oh my goodness Erbe was good in this scene, and this whole episode. Both she and VDO come across as so real. --Also liked when Eames tells Ross “It’s our turn” to interview Kathy. Interesting dynamic (as you all stated before) where Eames is the mediator. We saw her consistently getting her own back after last week’s brush with the “boys’ club.” --I could have done without that silly humming in the nursery, and I did not see the tarp whereof they spoke, but I would like one of those big giant giraffes for myself. --Eames wore a suit jacket. That should please some --Structurally, they did WAY too much disclosure at the end of the episode. I also find it quite hard to believe that Ross didn’t give them a run-down of all Kathy’s old flames and new peccadilloes. Or that they didn’t suspect Kathy of investigating Woody’s background before. --“V-Boost” for viagra. That was pretty nice. --Points for being back to using big words (“in flagrante”). PLEASE USE MORE BIG WORDS IN FUTURE, LOCI writers. --Kathy was a lot like the lady in “Rocket Woman” in some ways: meticulous and detective-like. --Thought the aria was clever, but what was with all the cougar stuff? I feel almost like there must have been some significant redrafting from the original, to account for the aftermath of Purgatory and Untethered, and so there was a whole lot of idea-ness floating around in the episode that didn't seem to be anchored to anything in particular. -- What’s with Goren staring after Ross at the end? Did someone lose another father figure? Bed! Hit me if you see me posting here again!
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Post by random on Jun 23, 2008 0:21:54 GMT -5
Rather convoluted, although I guess it really did just boil down to a twist on the usual jealous husband; instead here it was the jealous wife. I wasn't quite sure why, once Roy was cleared, they jumped back to Woody. They didn't yet know about his phone call to Kathy, so he was still just as missing as Avery.
Very nice the way Goren and Eames sort of melded back together in this episode. At first, Eames was still angry, then once Goren apologized, their body language became entirely different in the next scene: sitting closer together etc. They were sort of putting themselves back together, when all of these other relationships around them were falling apart.
Ross comes across as a rescuer here. (Those poor guys always end up in such trouble.) It's a contrast with his more equal relationship with Rodgers.
I agree that the reference to leaks in Major Case was foreshadowing of some sort.
I really hope Judge Feld wasn't in the back of that van. After decomposing for four years, you'd think he'd be too fragile for a bus tour of the 5 boroughs.
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eames47
Silver Shield Investigator
"What are they saying now???"
Posts: 173
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Post by eames47 on Jun 23, 2008 6:02:00 GMT -5
First off, after spending from 10pm-12:30am in the ER, I'm very groggy. So bear with me. (I got hives while on vacation and they started to reappear during CI. Not fun.) I really enjoyed this episode alot. Goren and Eames weren't ok from the start. I remember KE talking about how Vincent and she play every scene, even 7 years later. They always look for the "emotional through-line" in each scene. You could tell they worked this out, scene by scene. They started off cold to each other, or at least Eames did. She even asks Ross why they BOTH have to be there to take Kathy's statement. She clearly doesn't want to be there, and its not just that its late in the night when they both get pulled in. By the middle of the ep, Goren has told her she's right, and they are now sitting close together on their desks. She gets some report given to her and to get Goren's attention, she taps him on the chest. I like that gesture. The Eames at the beginning of the episode wouldn't have touched him to get his attention. She probably would have just gotten up and walked towards Ross, leaving Goren to try and figure out what she had in her hand. I loved the scene in the interrogation room too. Her line about "I don't know what's more pathetic.....". Cracked me up! KE delivered it so well, I want more of her like that! It's like KE read the script and thought, 'oh my God, I get to laugh? Gimme! Eames can smile! Woohoo!' And the end. My "continuity-loving" heart wants to believe that this is what happens after the credits roll (and I'm not a fanfic writer, although I can see this being written): Kathy is taken away. Other cops take the van away leaving Ross still contemplating his choice in believing Kathy over his own detectives. Goren and Eames stay to offer Ross a ride back. Eames and Goren are in the front seat, Ross in the back. Eames and Goren try, uncomfortably at first, to console their captain. "Sometimes we let our personal feelings cloud our judgement. Declan Gage, Kevin Quinn, Donnie Carlson......it happens. You just have to learn from it and move on." I don't know. It makes sense to me. And we really don't need it onscreen. Just show us something at the beginning of the next episode that the three have a new understanding of each other. But the next episode is technically, "Please Note...". Which was filmed before Purgatory. So we probably won't get to see their understanding right away. A girl can dream though. Which is what I'm going to do now that the steroids that they gave me for my hives are starting to wear off. Is is weird that all I could think about while in the ER was "Rocket Man" and the episode where Goren and Eames question a wrestler about his procurement of "Somatropin" (sp?) ;D
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