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Post by Patcat on Jun 25, 2008 13:03:37 GMT -5
I think we're making a lot of assumptions about Kathy and Ross' relationship. It's clear he was carrying a torch for her, but I'm not sure what sort of relationship they had in the past. (I don't think we can trust Kathy to have any kind of healthy relationship with a guy, and she was clearly using Ross.) It may have been one sided on his part, and perhaps it never reached a sexual point.
The great thing about Leslie Hendrix's scene as Rogers was that she was wonderfully ambivalent. I saw hurt and jealousy in her response, as well as sympathy for someone she cared about.
Patcat
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jun 25, 2008 14:28:10 GMT -5
The great thing about Leslie Hendrix's scene as Rogers was that she was wonderfully ambivalent. I saw hurt and jealousy in her response, as well as sympathy for someone she cared about. Patcat It is interesting how someone on the outside can see someone else self-destructing. Goren sees Ross doing it, Eames and Rogers see it also. Ross is so wrapped up in the mess that it isn't until it hits him in the face that he is able to finally see it for what it was. He must have felt betrayed/humiliated to have it all play out in front of his present girlfriend and two of his detectives. Imagine the anger he felt for Kathy and himself.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jun 25, 2008 14:31:25 GMT -5
Kathy was a user. She used anyone/everyone to get what she wanted. Unfortunately for her young hubby he was a user also. He just wasn't as lethal as Kathy.
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Post by nwchimom on Jun 25, 2008 14:52:18 GMT -5
I mentioned this elsewhere, that I found the scene with Kathy in the nursery confusing. Since she never went through with the in vitro fertilization (Woody was dead by her hands) why was she in there humming to herself, stroking that stuffed animal, hanging up the Mommy & Daddy photo? Doesn't make sense. That whole scene just made her look like Psycho Woman (ie: The Hand That Rocks The Cradle). Hanging the picture up of Woody and her, when she knew he was already dead. Creepy. I vote for psycho...I mean, have you ever had remodeling work done on your house? The nursery walls weren't even up yet, and she was setting out the crib bedding and hanging pictures. Those things will be covered in a thick layer of building dust, regardless of drop cloths or protective plastic sheeting. And the walls will need to be painted, too. I'm tellin' ya...psycho woman.
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Post by Patcat on Jun 25, 2008 15:09:22 GMT -5
I was watching the two minute replay on the USA site, and realized that Bobby was carrying his leather binder again. I think it's been a while since we've seen that--of course, he's not going to carry it while he's undercover, but I'm taking some odd comfort in the fact he's carying that talisman with him again.
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Jun 25, 2008 15:43:09 GMT -5
I vote for psycho...I mean, have you ever had remodeling work done on your house? The nursery walls weren't even up yet, and she was setting out the crib bedding and hanging pictures. Those things will be covered in a thick layer of building dust, regardless of drop cloths or protective plastic sheeting. And the walls will need to be painted, too. I'm tellin' ya...psycho woman. And yet another nursery theory. What if this scene was taped to be shown in the teaser? Meaning, we see Kathy in the nursery, all excited about tomorrow's fertility appointment, and then we cut to Avery & Woody planning their elopement. For some reason, it was placed out of order in the episode. I mean, we KNOW that kind of inconsistency has been done before. Beard, anyone?
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Post by nwchimom on Jun 25, 2008 18:23:55 GMT -5
I don't think the scene was out of order. When the camera pulled back and showed Kathy at the crib in a long shot, we could see plastic sheeting waving between the wall studs....so construction was still ongoing.
(BTW, my earlier post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but I still thought it was crazy that she was setting up the room when it wasn't finished.)
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roots2rock
Silver Shield Investigator
Birthdate: September 6 VIRGO!
Posts: 101
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Post by roots2rock on Jun 25, 2008 19:25:38 GMT -5
I agree with ragincajun. Why is everyone so hung up on Goren's look? As said, not all of the detectives on the L&O shows wear suits and ties all of the time. Let's just be glad he's back! Whatever he wears, Goren is always Goren to me--IMO. And I like the beard. Speaking of weight, Ross seems to be heavier in this episode.
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Post by Summerfield on Jun 25, 2008 20:30:07 GMT -5
And Eames is in need of a haircut! And by the way, she's not a blonde!
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jun 25, 2008 23:38:34 GMT -5
And Eames is in need of a haircut! And by the way, she's not a blonde! Her hair for the last couple of seasons has looked terrible. It has been long, stringy and always in her eyes. She has a pretty face. Show it!! I think she looks better with shorter hair. I don't remember what season it was but there for awhile it was short and looked really cute. Now it is sort of unkempt.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jun 25, 2008 23:44:50 GMT -5
Those things will be covered in a thick layer of building dust, regardless of drop cloths or protective plastic sheeting. And the walls will need to be painted, too. I'm tellin' ya...psycho woman. We had some work done last year. Re-did the powder room. The walls are plaster and had to be sanded......OMG. We had visqueen up all over but it didn't help. There was dust over everything. We even had it in the silverware drawer. I had to wash down the entire upstairs. So nobody in their right mind sets up a nursery with more construction to do.
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Post by ragincajun on Jun 26, 2008 10:22:36 GMT -5
And Eames is in need of a haircut! And by the way, she's not a blonde! Go to a hair salon, ask them to look at there color book and look at the shades of blonde, yes she is blonde, I was shocked when I went to get my hair, Light Brown, only way to get your hair light brown is to go blonde, in the color book, light brown is blonde, dark blonde is almost dark brown to me, funny how professional hair color is different than what we consider.
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Post by ragincajun on Jun 26, 2008 10:27:19 GMT -5
I vote for psycho...I mean, have you ever had remodeling work done on your house? The nursery walls weren't even up yet, and she was setting out the crib bedding and hanging pictures. Those things will be covered in a thick layer of building dust, regardless of drop cloths or protective plastic sheeting. And the walls will need to be painted, too. I'm tellin' ya...psycho woman. And yet another nursery theory. What if this scene was taped to be shown in the teaser? Meaning, we see Kathy in the nursery, all excited about tomorrow's fertility appointment, and then we cut to Avery & Woody planning their elopement. For some reason, it was placed out of order in the episode. I mean, we KNOW that kind of inconsistency has been done before. Beard, anyone? Maybe she had some of his sperm frozen from a used condom? But that really doesn't make sense, she knew he was dead, unless its just used to throw us off. But she doesn't know we are watching, or just in case Danny comes over?
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Post by annabelleleigh on Jun 26, 2008 12:25:55 GMT -5
I've just seen "Betrayed" and have read all of the comments here, many of which were much better than the show.
The Diana Son interview on the USA site was a revelation. There was another story idea that "got scotched" -- and so the writers scotch-taped this script together, kind of like "Contract." Thus the weak plot, obvious outcome, borrowed metaphors from past episodes, and all the scene and dialogue discontinuity.
Whew! Either the writers haven't yet recovered from the WGA strike, or Warren Leight was off negotiating with HBO when these last two episodes were in the works.
Watching that Diana Son interview (after seeing "Betrayed") I kept asking myself how this could be the same person responsible for the excellent "Depths" -- and whether she has been watching the same CI that I have.
What does she mean, we are "slowly" watching all four detectives and Ross take on "more layers"? Like all things had been/are developing equally and the same.
Is she serious when she's says "we're not changing the show...it's still about the mystery..."? Has she ever watched a bunch of G/E shows back-to-back with L/partner du jour episodes?
Did anyone else find it disconcerting to hear a CI co-executive producer and writer describe a series that in significant ways seems unlike the one we discuss in these fan forums?
AL
P.S. And what's with Son's delusion that "Kathy" in this episode is Goren's equal? What a very pale, almost evanescent recall of the powerful Nicole Wallace character.
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Post by deathroe on Jun 26, 2008 14:45:51 GMT -5
Son is responsible for the periodic bathos in "Great Barrier," I'm pretty sure, and that was definitely one of the shows responsible for pulling CI toward the realm of cartoon :/ ... I think there is less there than (based on her comments) one might be expected to see. The writing has been on the light side, with exceptions, for the better part of two seasons. I was just watching “Wrongful Life,” from Season 5, and it was much more affecting than I remembered it. It was simple, but it held together well, and there was a sense of breadth and character that has so often been lost of late. It seems ironic that the harder they try to incorporate all these flying elements (Eames and Goren, Frank, the suspension)—the less there really is to chew on, story-wise. On KE's hair: I think a big part of it is coloring issues. She appears to have really lovely coloring (probably Winter or Summer), but we don’t often get to see that on CI because her skin tone and eyes are not flattered by any warm shade or highlighting, light or dark. And then she will wear flattering colors on the show, but they’ll clash with her hair. It’s the oddest thing. She does still look better than most of us. I do feel kind of bad, however, that people are always knocking her hair. I am not sure that I would like to read that about myself all the time. If you do a lot of stuff to your hair over the years, which in her case involves all those dye jobs and getting up every morning early for 9 months of the year and going in and getting it blow dried all the time, which is really bad for your hair to start with, your hair will suffer some damage. Most female actors have pretty damaged hair after a while. A few more things I noticed about the episode: --Goren's anxious look when Eames asks if they're "both" needed on this missing husbands case. Take that for what you will. --Ross's pained look when Kathy noted her husband's age. I guess that's the new CI mode of "you have to figure things out instead of being told them" --Kathy's comment that they were out of synch was completely gratuitous. It didn’t tell us anything about her character; it was just thrown in in case you missed “Purgatory.” Old school CI you’d have had to guess that something was up from Erbe’s and D’Onofrio’s perfectly adequate little nonverbal exchanges. --Old school CI: Goren sees Roy’s hand and guesses that he’s punched the mirror. New CI: we get to see Roy punching the mirror. Judge for yourselves if this is a bonus. --The Roy/Eames scene was highly entertaining but overlong and gratuitous nonetheless. They didn’t need “filet mignon” AND “steroids” and the whole thing about whether anyone would sleep with him. Much as I enjoy Erbe’s acting. Incidentally, this was a very Mariska on SVU-like scene. I found it to be a bit of a sideshow. I don’t think Eames needs to be Benson. I have not overthought any of this, no … --The show has taken on an ongoing fixation with aging, from Eames’ sighs at the coin collector’s assertion that Dana was hot but “old” in “Depths” to this whole cougar business. I personally could do without this, unless they handled it intelligently. On a related note, I wish they’d stop throwing in young flesh and people making out to “sex up” the show. I’d rather just have more of the fortysomething principals, TYVM.
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