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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 12, 2008 10:37:59 GMT -5
METELLA: I sometimes wonder if what was going on in VDO's personal life impacted what he was bringing to the show. I know he had some amount of input as to character development but to what extent and what direction I don't know. Could this account for Goren's emotional slide that we have seen over the last few seasons? Could that path have been decided by VDO.... and then when his personal life turned around he and the show runner/writers were left with trying to make sense of Goren's dismal situation? Coming up with a story arc that would bring Goren out of the emotional darkness and into some semblance of a normal life would begin to somewhat mirror VDO's own personal journey. Just a thought........... I find this idea of yours especially profound. Yes, yes....I can see VDO wanting to draw upon his own personal turmoil (divorce, possible infidelity, possible prescription drug abuse, possible sexual deviance....), his dark past, and use it to have Goren spiral downward. Using his method approach, of course. And in turn, as he rekindled & saved his marriage, got healthy, and now with a new baby - draw on that happiness to bring Goren back to being whole again. I sincerely hope this is true. God, I wish I could ask VDO, or Leight, or Balcer...somebody who is in the know!
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Post by maherjunkie on Jul 12, 2008 12:29:27 GMT -5
Sexual deviance? Good Lord woman what do you know that we don't?!
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 12, 2008 13:20:24 GMT -5
Sexual deviance? Good Lord woman what do you know that we don't?! As a member of LOCI....you are required by the just made rule of disclosure to SPILL THE BEANS!!!! LOL
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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 12, 2008 13:35:58 GMT -5
You guys don't know this? It's all rumor & innuendo, of course. The first incident was mentioned at the TWoP forum, the then "Hotness" thread. It was years ago ladies. Someone claimed that she had a date with VDO (she was a waitress at his favorite local luncheonette) and that his preferences were "freaky" as she called it. Second was more recent. A woman who claimed to be a dominatrix also claimed that Vincent was a customer of hers. That he enjoyed her services. All of these rumors all occurred while VDO was "single," and estranged from Carin. Who knows? The man's an artist, they can be weird. Or it could all be a load of crap, just people looking for attention, that's all. I hope I don't get a PM from a Mod for this. I'll blame you guys.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 12, 2008 14:12:54 GMT -5
That might explain the intent look VDO had for the dominatrix in one of the later episodes.
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Post by Patcat on Jul 12, 2008 22:26:17 GMT -5
I've got images in my head that really don't need to be there (g).
Seriously, though, I think we need to remember that these are rumors on the internet. Not all places on the internet are as reliable and kind as this one (g). And Mr. D'Onofrio's private life is his private life.
I have some difficulty with the idea Goren's downward spiral is some reflection of Mr. D'Onofrio's personal life. He's too good of an actor to use his profession to work out his personal problems. Use them to inform his work, yes, but not to take the place of a psychiatrist. I think the downward move is more the result of both Mr. Balcer and Mr. Leight's ideas--probably more the latter than the former, but some of Goren's troubles began on Mr. Balcer's watch. At the same time, I imagine Mr. D'Onofrio agreed to and had something to do with what has and is happening to the character.
Mr. D'Onofrio certainly does seem to be happier in his private life if recent photos and interviews indicate. He actually looks a lot better than Goren these days.
Also, maybe because of some of the extreme characters he plays, Mr. D'Onofrio seems to be the subject of some bizarre (at least to me, but perhaps I've led a sheltered life) gossip.
Patcat
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Post by deathroe on Jul 12, 2008 23:04:24 GMT -5
Hope no one minds my expressing a rather strong opinion on this: I shouldn't really be admitting that I know this, but the only place I've ever seen the second set of rumors was on a Topix board (by a poster claiming to be said dominatrix). The only reason I know about Topix boards is that they are a source of horrific innuendo and name-calling in small towns, which I did not know before I lived in a small town. So--proceed with caution. I don't mean to come across as preachy, and I view the contributors here as very honorable people, but I am starting to think that any spreading of rumor, even about celebrities, can do more harm than good. Look at what the media is like: it is a good 90+ percent of such rumor, gossip, and innuendo. Younger people do not know the difference between this and real news. Consequently I can go online and read stuff about myself, as a college instructor, that is basically lies. I can't take it down. I can't protest it. It's out there to spread itself. Now, obviously celebrities have more money and power and better modes of protection. And obviously people have been interested in celebrity gossip from the dawn of time. But they are still human, and I'm not sure if it helps anyone to dwell on this sort of thing. Bottom line: I like to think that Mr. D'Onofrio (and Ms. Erbe, and the others) s happy because his talent has given me a great deal of enjoyment. But I want to be a little less interested in the gossip than I am because I feel like it does more harm than good. I am DEFINITELY guilty of being over-interested in it. Besides, as Greevey tells Logan in Season 1, Episode 7 of the original Law and Order--"You can never know someone else's story"
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Post by Techguy on Jul 12, 2008 23:22:53 GMT -5
I'm honestly kind of bewildered that these are mostly (or often) the same writers, considering how witless the writing has become. I will say--this was mildly amusing for the first half hour. given the old-school quality. But I still thought the end was bathos, SVU lite. On another note--and I feel somewhat disloyal for saying this, but--I feel like there is such a thing as underplaying. Erbe and D'Onofrio seemed particularly guilty of that, here: I felt there was a sleepwalked quality. I can't add anything to what you've already said Deathroe. This epidode did next to nothing for me, especially in the weak second half.
The premise of the serial killing of parents of kids attending a hoity toity pre-school intrigued me--for a while. But instead of running with this dramatic theme, everyone involved fumbed the ball before reaching the end zone. Marla had to be the killer, she was too white-trashy, too inadequate a wife, mother, and daughter-in-law I just knew she had issues with ensuring her son got admitted to the hoity toity pre-school. Even the presence of the deliciously b****y Jessica Walter character couldn't save this blah episode.
I detected a lack of passion in both the writing and acting. By the time we arrive at the confrontation scene between Goren and Marla, I was barely interested in the outcome. It didn't help that I had seen countless previews of the gun held on Goren, so whatever dramatic impact was intended was already ruined by the time I watched this episode. The story, especially the resolution, is lame and way too predictable, and thus very ordinary and quite forgettable.
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Post by dragonsback on Jul 12, 2008 23:42:50 GMT -5
The premise of the serial killing of parents of kids attending a hoity toity pre-school intrigued me--for a while. But instead of running with this dramatic theme, everyone involved fumbed the ball before reaching the end zone. Marla had to be the killer, she was too white-trashy, too inadequate a wife, mother, and daughter-in-law I just knew she had issues with ensuring her son got admitted to the hoity toity pre-school. Even the presence of the deliciously b****y Jessica Walter character couldn't save this blah episode. I detected a lack of passion in both the writing and acting. By the time we arrive at the confrontation scene between Goren and Marla, I was barely interested in the outcome. It didn't help that I had seen countless previews of the gun held on Goren, so whatever dramatic impact was intended was already ruined by the time I watched this episode. The story, especially the resolution, is lame and way too predictable, and thus very ordinary and quite forgettable. [/color][/quote] Yes. I can only agree, at least with the parts I can read in barely distinguishable red-on-blue. Is that your signature color, Techg? Are you deeply committed to it?
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Post by Techguy on Jul 13, 2008 0:03:09 GMT -5
red-on-blue. Is that your signature color, Techg? Are you deeply committed to it? Yes on both counts. I've used it for over 5 years, primarily because it makes it easier for me to find my posts in each thread. And that was way before I started having eye problems! ;D
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Post by dragonsback on Jul 13, 2008 3:13:18 GMT -5
red-on-blue. Is that your signature color, Techg? Are you deeply committed to it? Yes on both counts. I've used it for over 5 years, primarily because it makes it easier for me to find my posts in each thread. And that was way before I started having eye problems! ;DFair enough I just find it hard, with good eyesight,to read your very interesting posts. But, hey, if you have problems, and the red-on-blue works for you (I thought that perhaps you wre Asbergers challenged, also very cool) then I will squint a a bit to read you
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 13, 2008 3:38:29 GMT -5
Two things......
I noticed during a rerun last night that in many scenes Goren is doing something with his hands. Not talking with them, but flicking one finger against the others. Hard to describe...... I'm sure this is an intentional movement by VDO but it became almost a distraction.
When Ross, Eames and Goren are in the office and Eames and Goren are explaining the motive behind the killings by using a white board, I noticed one of the childrens' names on that board was Elias.
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Post by lilymaybeme on Jul 13, 2008 6:23:48 GMT -5
Excuse me if I'm out of line here, but I use a different skin (Jefferaldo's I think) and all the posts are easier on my poor eyes and easier for me to read. I like the idea that Techguy distinguishes his posts. Too bad there aren't enough colors in the spectrum for all of us to do it!
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Post by DNA on Jul 13, 2008 7:04:13 GMT -5
I don't know if anyone else has already suggested this, apologies if they have. I just wanted to add another possible explanation with regard to the character development and direction. For 4/5 years we got little glimpses of the characters personal story that were never really explored and then came what some may describe as a soapy/angst overload and while I'm still undecided as to whether this was a good thing or not, I for one feel compelled to see where it end's. It occurred to me that maybe the foreboding shadow that hung over the shows future may have caused the sudden rush to revisit and tie up these aspects of LOCI. With the show possibly on the brink of cancellation, cast and crew change on more than one occasion, maybe the writers/cast felt the urge/obligation to finish something they had started.
I would have been disappointed had LOCI ended with these aspects of the characters and show never being resolved, I just wish it had been more gradual.
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Post by maherjunkie on Jul 13, 2008 9:32:08 GMT -5
I've had heard about the waitress thing but thought it was vague as "freak in the bed" could mean anything. Since there are so many freaks on the internet who claim to know Vincent I wasn't sure how far to take it.
Oh yeah, this ep sucks! Snore, snore.
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