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Post by trisha on Nov 20, 2004 9:49:12 GMT -5
Ointmentfly, we are a skeptical group, don't take it personally. I am willing to give you the benefit of doubt, but doubt also has it's shortcomings. You can't reasonably prove that you are an insider without giving up your real identity, so it's better to just let it go. Since you are a fan of the show, it may be better to stick to posting as a fan without any added info that you cannot prove is not speculation.
I know that Nick5oh gets away with this at times, but he has been among our group for a long time and has proven himself over time to be reliable. He also has not posted any opinion or speculation regarding the cast. I'm sure he read all of our speculation over KE's pregnancy before it was announced, but he never once remarked on whether or not it was true. This is a very professional way to go about it, as well as a way to remove himself from speculation.
I hope this doesn't discourage you from posting as a fellow fan of the show.
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Post by Metella on Nov 20, 2004 14:09:58 GMT -5
Oh, thanks Trisha, yes Ointmentfly, I didnt' mean my reply directed at Rom to be a bash at you - I, so far, like your posts, even the last one! and I was going to speak up and say you were getting a rough welcome, so definately ..... what Trisha said.
I just don't buy much in the way of bragging and vague references as I have seen so many name droppers in life .... I wanted to give Rom a gentle guide. We all know how much he LOVES Erbe, and I want him to get accurate information.
ok - I'm off to the squad room to make a useless post so I get my PROMOTION!!
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Post by Techguy on Nov 20, 2004 15:32:53 GMT -5
If I may throw one or more notes of caution to the wind...here goes. And if there are those who are more in-the-know about such things, please correct me if I'm off-base.
Even though Vincent D'Onofrio is a celebrity and thus subject to all sorts of press coverage, rumors and gossip, these bouts of fainting are the first really gossipy mentions about him in the press that I can recall. At least over a sustained period of time.
I do recall something or other about his "relationship" with then co-star Greta Scacchi, and then his marriage and later divorce from Carin Van der Donk. But the level and intensity has been nowhere near what it has been lately.
As far as what NBC and Dick Wolf have done in response, I think it has been just right. D'Onofrio seems to be the type that doesn't get bothered one way or another by negative press, but prefers to stay out of the limelight. Any more passionate response from either NBC or Wolf wouldn't quiet down the gossip tabloids--a brief, simple to-the-point contradiction is all that is needed. And from what I've seen, the negativity has sort of died down a bit which is a most welcome bit of relief in this mess.
The other point I want to make is this. Despite D'Onofrio's celebrity status, we might not get all the details of what has been bothering him. Medical records are, or should be, matters of privacy between patient and doctor. And I really don't foresee D'Onofrio coming out and telling the world what has been ailing him. If he wants to keep this matter private, that's his business. Unless, of course, some medical type with access to his records decides to make a buck or get some 15 minutes of fame notoriety by going public with his medical history.
If D'Onofrio's medical records do end up being publicly revealed without his permission, well then bring in the lawyers to do whatever it is they do. I for one have no sympathy or respect for anyone who would breach the privacy of a patient, celebrity or not, in this manner.
And...this is not meant as criticism but merely observation...the entire fainting story seems to have generated more discussion and commentary than any individual CI episode or D'Onofrio movie, as far as I can tell. Most interesting if true. I don't know what to make of this, and again, I don't intend any criticism. I just find it peculiarly intriguing that this subject has been so far-reaching and self-sustaining.
And here I am doing my part as well. Fascinating.
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Post by Enthralled on Nov 20, 2004 16:20:09 GMT -5
Techguy, you make an very good point about all of the speculation about VDOs health and on set behavior generating more discussion than epis or movies. It would be interesting to figure out what that's all about... I just started reading boards in the last 2 weeks - just about the time that this story hit - I'm amazed that I have found myself drawn to this discussion of his personal life, very surreal - given I will never meet the man. When all is said and done it does appear that he may be experiencing difficulties in his personal life - not unlike any of us, but in his case, unfortunately for him, magnified by celebrity. To that end, I hope he finds some peace of mind and resolves his problems. For now, I am looking forward to tomorrow night and getting back to watching LOCI - enjoying the subtle and not so subtle changes in season 4- lots to analyze and discuss - and ejoying it for it is - entertainment
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Post by romulanavatra3 on Nov 20, 2004 17:00:06 GMT -5
hey techguy no offence but did you get of bed oon the wrong side this morning its just that you posted the same post twice. great points though. you make a very good point about a perons medical records and i would never expect that vincent nor any hospital( if for very diifrent reasons) would want his personal medical records beocmming public knowledge. though if on the other hand the hospital was to reveal his conditon which it has right to do it would make for a diffrent set of events. i agree that if somebody breeched his privacy they would diserve evrything they got. reagrds rom
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Post by Patcat on Nov 20, 2004 17:25:44 GMT -5
Part of this fascination is, I hope, genuine concern for an actor whose work we enjoy and admire. And part is that horrible part of some of us that is drawn to gossip for some reason, which is why I stood huddled in a corner of a store trying to inconspicuously glance at a National Enquirer. (Couldn't find anything, by the way.)
Patcat (who is a weak and bad person and needs to go to confession, 'scuse me, reconciliation)
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Post by Enthralled on Nov 20, 2004 17:31:56 GMT -5
Hey Patcat I am guilty as charged and did sneak a peek at the Enquirer - nothing new, but this sintilating bit of insider news: VDO blames the catering service because he gained weight. ;D Poor Vince, he gets no respect ;D
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Post by Techguy on Nov 20, 2004 17:35:41 GMT -5
Rom, I didn't get out of bed on the wrong side this morning. The duplicate post (since deleted) was due to impatience and overzealous attempt to get my post through after getting numerous Too Many Connections messages. That and way too much coffee.
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Post by Sirenna on Nov 20, 2004 17:36:58 GMT -5
We are all (I think) fans so, of course, if Vincent is ill that would be of interest to us. I don't think this is an invasion of his privacy or spurious concern. I do think speculating about his family is though.
As to the number of views this thread has received, compared to his work, it's much less than it seems when put in context. Each episode discusses Vincent, his work and the cast and crew. Looked at as a whole, there's been much less attention paid to his health, than the show as a whole and this interest has sustained itself, indeed even increased, over the past three years. Although this past week pretty much all we thought about, where LO:CI was concerned was if he would be ok.
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Post by Sirenna on Nov 20, 2004 17:55:20 GMT -5
Rom's post to ointment fly wasn't at all niaive but was very well-thought out. He said respectfully he was open to the idea but skeptical because Ointmentfly contradicted himself (herself? Sorry I dont' know which gender to pick for you ) Ointmentfly: I do think you might have had some connection to the show more than just posting on it, but I do think you are vague and, perhaps (although I could be wrong) exagerating the extent because you are facing some opposition here to the idea that Vincent could be anything less than perfect. We've had industry people post and nothing you've yet written is specific enough for me to consider you in that realm. Their post had a certain tone of veracity even when they never included specific details. For instance I absolutely believe Chief is a retired police officer even though he's never posted his resume and just spoken in general terms. don't shoot me, but sometimes the Enquirer gets things right. and worse, sometimes well-written rags like NYT actually publish articles by Enquirer writers! They break a lot of the squalid stories like Pam and Tommy Lee sex tapes. They pay lice to follow people until they catch them doing something newsy, like wearing a mismatched outfit. As for their prolific ties to space invaders, I believe that the people they interview believe what they say they've seen. It would help if a space alien could corroborate the hearsay. Oh, wait they have interviewed space aliens. The thing is mainstream press includes the Enquirer. Most people find their news interesting enough to make this paper have the highest circulation of any paper in North America. There's no point not checking the story out. You can't squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube. The stories are not going to be buried just because some of us, myself included, think it's trash news and exhort others not to look. We should read it in context with everything else we know about Vincent and hte show and make our decisions based on that.
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js
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 143
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Post by js on Nov 20, 2004 19:00:01 GMT -5
I confess to sneakily reading the Enquirer article. There was one comment, more ugly than others previously written, given as fact. The paper was right next to The Star, perfect justapositon.
I do find it interesting and puzzling that VDO's fainting has generated such a tizzy by the tabloids. As Tech Guy said, other items about VDO have been very small and short lived, and those could have been fodder for real sesationalism- Schaci, his divorce, the waitress thing, etc. Instead, they appeared and quietly died away.
As far as VDO or Wolf and all coming out with a denial or any other response, sometimes the best reaction to this type of thing is the "no-response-response." A response may just add fuel to the fire and generate more stuff from the tabloids.
Many celebs won't bother suing tabloids because the celeb has to prove the tabloid lied- the tabloid doesn't have to prove the story is true. Tabloids also get great free publicity if a star sues, and the star has to take an emotional bath in public. Carol Burnett is an example of a successful case against a tabloid that printed that she was an alcoholic when someone saw her stumble, maybe even fall, coming out of a restaurant. She won, proving that she wasn't an alcoholic and what really happend. Then she donated the monetary award to charity.
I know that all of the boards have discussed this topic constantly and I think that is because we are his fans and have been concerned about his health. Hopefully, he will be well and able to work.
js
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Post by Patcat on Nov 20, 2004 23:07:54 GMT -5
Ok, what page and what issue of the NE?
Patcat (like I wrote, I'm a bad, bad person)
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Rose
Rookie
Posts: 35
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Post by Rose on Nov 22, 2004 7:39:06 GMT -5
Hi guys, hope you're all well! I'm not a lawyer but from what I've studied, it's not that stars have to prove the tabloid lied. In general, with defamation of character (libel and slander) cases, the case the plaintiff has to prove is that the comment was defamatory (which has its own legal definition). Truth is an absolute defense, but the burden is on the defendant to prove the comment was true. The burden is not on the plaintiff to prove it was false. This is more cut and dried when a private citizen sues another private citizen for libel or slander. However, courts have made it harder to win a libel case against a publication so as not to put a chilling effect on the free speech of magazines and newspapers. It's even harder when the subject of the defamatory comment is about a celebrity because the celebrity is considered to have the power to use the media to defend himself or herself. I believe the standard that publications have to meet is "absence of malice" which I believe means they have to ATTEMPT to check with two different sources to confirm the story. I think all they have to do is leave a message saying they would like a comment confirming or denying. If they do make that effort, even if they don't reach anyone, and the story still turns out to be false, they're not held liable, otherwise newspapers would be afraid to print anything for fear of getting sued. Again I THINK this is the case. If there is an attorney out there with more expertise in this area I'd love to hear from you! My two cents re this issue is I totally disbelieve the fistfight claim based on the simple fact that there would have been a well publicized lawsuit by now. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Vincent and probably even the whole rest of the cast got into spirited political discussion with people this fall. Just about *everybody* with even a passing interest in politics did so. Spirited discussion during election season is healthy. Could Vincent, like most people with jobs involving stress and responsibility, be great to work with at times and a pain at other times? Sure. Or he could be a dream 100% of the time. As for his health, I agree that his condition could be mere exhaustion (which is a condition that does get diagnosed at hospitals...it can involve too little sleep and too much dehydration). If we don't hear anymore about it soon I would doubt there is anymore to it, as it's so easy for yellow journalists to get medical information about people these days. Unfortunately. In order to keep myself happy and content, I choose to believe Vincent has been overworking and needs to get more rest and fluids, and to realize that in your forties maybe you shouldn't climb stairs so fast. I also hope he stops smoking and gaining weight for roles. One thing is certain. If Vincent has made the Enquirer, it means there is no doubt. He is a star. Those fans who wondered why he wasn't a bigger star need no longer worry...and we can understand a bit better why Vincent wanted to be a character actor and not a big celebrity. This is the price they all have to pay for entertaining us. Sad but true.
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Post by Metella on Nov 23, 2004 5:05:34 GMT -5
on another legal note which Rom brought up .... here in the U.S., Rom, there is a law regarding medical records & those who create and keep them...... while I realize that there will be leaks, it is a Federal Privacy Law in which those records are kept confidential.
So while someone may leak them, the press. the FAMILY, even the insurance company have NO right to them at all. The patient must sign a waiver to even release it to the insurance company which needs them to decide whether to pay for the treatment or not. So if someone is caught trying to make a buck on this, it could be really nasty for them.
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Rose
Rookie
Posts: 35
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Post by Rose on Nov 23, 2004 6:01:15 GMT -5
Metella, I forgot about the new privacy laws. I'm glad they're around, although as you said who knows what unscrupulous people will try to get away with.
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