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Post by Cassie on Jan 24, 2008 11:19:45 GMT -5
oh and I thought last nights episode "Intent" was wonderful. LOVED IT!
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hansen21
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 75
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Post by hansen21 on Jan 24, 2008 13:41:08 GMT -5
Hi Cassie,
I'm wondering if the last year's female detective came in like low-key Lupo did this season, if that female detective would've been successful. Lupo also got a lot of backstory, too. The actor admitted that.
Viewing the latest L & O episode, Green and Lupo do seem to have an aura of comfort working together. : the actors/detectives have chemistry and they're both eye candy(for the sex appeal component.) but not too "pretty" or unbelievable. Plus some of the camera work, mentioned in the article TechGuy posted, seems to contribute to the story. We get scenes that move smoothly and are cut well, rather than cut frenetically because it's the "style-of-the-moment" and looks so cool, man, and everyone's doing it.
What I'm wondering is, if Falacci and Logan seem to have the right chemistry, and the audience seems to like their episodes, then what does that mean for Wheeler if she returns?
It seems as though Wheeler and especially Barek are not in the mold of Falacci. Logan's character pairs well with a female version of himself rather than a female version of Goren.
How will Wheeler play out?
I realize that not everyone likes Falacci, but there seems to be a consensus that the L/F stories have been stronger this season and Falacci's character might be a part of that. That is, F/L relationship is between equals(at least in Falacci's head) than the L/Wheeler big brother/mentor relationship. How can they beef up wussy Wheeler (I don't mean physically)so she can play in Logan's backyard?
Goren comparisons
I was somewhat surprised to hear in an interview by the actor Noth who plays Logan mention that he's not really a fan of the Holmes concept, and I thought that sort of odd considering he's on that type of show( I realize he was brought on because of VDO's exhaustion.)
Initially, I felt sorry for the writers/directors because they had an actor who really disliked/disrespected the format or basic premise of the show which they'd been writing cleverly for four seasons. Noth mentioned that he told the writers to write him opposite of Goren. Perhaps Noth realized on some level or maybe he intuited somehow, that if he's the opposite of Goren, then Noth/Logan can't be compared to Goren : they're like apples and oranges. Posters make those distinctions when discussing them so we don't get much of the Goren-clone talk with Logan. It probably helps that Logan was an established character for at least some of the t.v. audience. They knew that Logan was never Goren and would never be Goren.
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Post by Techguy on Jan 24, 2008 15:56:46 GMT -5
Hansen21, I'm as conflicted as you are about Wheeler's return given how strong the Logan/Falacci episodes have been this season. I liked Wheeler a lot, but Falacci has been very impressive. The consistent strength of the L/F episodes has been a very big plus in Season 7. I don't know what the writers will do with the Wheeler character if and when she returns. It's going to be interesting to watch if and when we get more new episodes, assuming the WGA strike gets settled.
I agree with your conclusions about Chris Noth's statements about his character Mike Logan on CI. I don't think he meant any disrespect to the show or to the Goren character. I believe he didn't want to have his own Logan character compromised by changing him so drastically into a Goren clone. Doing so would have been so radical and so disruptive, CI fans would have been even more vocal about the changes in the show. Goren is Goren, and Logan is Logan, each unique and special in his own right. My preference is that each should be allowed to grow and develop consistent with their characters, and that personal details be revealed in small and subtle doses.
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Post by DonnaJo on Jan 24, 2008 16:41:59 GMT -5
I also noticed the "Goren style stubble" on Lupo last evening on the mothership, LOL. Thought the same thing...he's been up all night on a case aka Bobby.
I was personally disturbed that the case they "ripped" is one very close to home for me. It's taken from the recent shooting of a white teenager by a black father, who claims to have been protecting his son from some white teens that came to his home after a party. This happened in Miller Place, the next town over on Long Island where I live. I vaguely know the Dad of the deceased teen, he owns an auto shop nearby.
The real tragedy is that it all stemmed from a lie. A white girl, trying to cause trouble and/or get attention, made up a story that the black youth tried to rape her. Ironically, I don't think she got in any trouble for her role.
I don't know where they got the "soccer mom vigilante" second storyline from. Anybody?
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Post by Techguy on Jan 27, 2008 23:13:18 GMT -5
I finally had time to watch my tape of the most recent episode. The SIL wasn't in it so it looks like the romantic angle subplot won't be a weekly occurrence.
I remember the story of the black father shooting a white teenage boy but not the "soccer mom vigilante" ripped from the headline story. Perhaps that angle is a purposeful twist on the RFTH formula for this episode.
It was nice to see a couple of familiar faces, the actors portraying the defense attorneys--Terry Kinney and Ned Eisenberg (a CI repeat offender from "Shandeh" and "30").
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Post by nwchimom on Jan 27, 2008 23:42:14 GMT -5
I realize that not everyone likes Falacci, but there seems to be a consensus that the L/F stories have been stronger this season and Falacci's character might be a part of that. I wouldn't say there's a consensus. From the posts I've seen and people I've talked to I'd say it's pretty much 50-50. Personally I thought the L/F stories were very weak (other than the fantastic Senseless), thanks to a combination of writing and the Falacci character. Logan, however, continues to be solid. BTW, Det. Cassady was played by Milena Govich. And, DonnaJo? In addition to the "up all night on a case" angle, I think the stubble on Lupo and Goren can be attributed in part to long stints doing undercover work.
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hansen21
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 75
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Post by hansen21 on Feb 4, 2008 0:34:56 GMT -5
Nwchimom,
When you say the L/F stories are weak, do you mean the stories are weaker than the last two Logan seasons or that they're weaker in comparison to Goren episodes?
I haven't been able to view any of this season's episodes save for 1 L/F so I can't really comment on if they're weaker than other seasons.
From what I've seen posted, Falacci seems to have won people over as the season progresses. I'm not saying everyone, but it seems to be more than 50% tipping in her favor. There was the initial outcry of dislike, but I believe some people are changing their opinion.
Has anyone changed their opinion about Falacci as the season progresses?
Just watched another L& O episode featuring a kidnapping taking place during a blackout. Wow. Lupo has really settled in and it's what, the second or third episode? After viewing the first episode, I took Lupo to being a ticking time bomb, but in this episode, Lupo seems to be relatively laid back or maybe dog-tired. I suppose the disheveled appearance : always the tie off center or loose or sloppy helps establish that feeling.
An look into Lupo's character in the Blackout episode
When the woman on the street drinking her glass of alcohol propositions Lupo, he looks, pauses and responds saying something like, "You know you shouldn't or can't be drinking that on the street." Hmmm....I didn't see flirty or like he was considering the offer(Logan anyone?), yet he wasn't indignant or strident in his opposition. Lupo looked like he didn't know how to respond at first and then he falls back on the law, and again he wasn't all in your face about it either.
Another interesting twist to this episode is having the detectives using their whistles during the blackout because their radios were running out of juice. We get VanBuren's comment about a time when detectives didn't have radios. Then we get the "everyone get out your whistles" line. Then we get to see the whistles in action. The pacing is working.
One scene that I enjoyed watching and really had nice timing is when Lupo, by himself, is chasing the bicycling kidnapper down the somewhat secluded, narrow streets or alleys. Lupo is sprinting and at some point is blowing the whistle while running full sprint. Lupos' not going to let up. Sprinting and exhaling into a whistle is extremely difficult . It actually looked like they pieced together some shots or reused a shot because I can't imagine the actor would've been able to keep up the speed if there were more than three takes.
The other nice visual to that scene is seeing the lone Lupo running down the street, and then a sudden convergence of officers coming from the side street running behind Lupo. It reminds me of a lone wolf and his pack.
I can see L & O lasting two more years, if the quality continues.
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Post by DonnaJo on Feb 4, 2008 9:29:15 GMT -5
Lupo has the Goren/Logan loneliness thing going on. Actually, more like Goren, as I can see Logan being less somber during the exchange. Lupo knows he can't accept a proposition from a drunk party girl, especially on duty during a blackout. But I remember after she walks away, a back glance at her from him. Was it regret that he had to walk away from some lovin? LOVE the whole whistle chase scene. Great analogy about Lupo as a lone wolf leading a pack. And for what it's worth, hansen, I have grown to like Falacci better as the season has progressed. She's an acquired taste too, I think.
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Post by nwchimom on Feb 4, 2008 15:37:26 GMT -5
Nwchimom, When you say the L/F stories are weak, do you mean the stories are weaker than the last two Logan seasons or that they're weaker in comparison to Goren episodes? Neither, really. I don't compare Logan eps to Goren episodes, and it's not even fair to compare Logan/Barek to Logan/Wheeler or Logan/Falacci. You know how you can watch a movie or read a book and say, "I thought the acting was fantastic" or "That was a boring book"? That's what I mean when I say I thought the Logan/Falacci eps were weak. If I'm making any comparison, maybe it's to the quality I've come to expect from Criminal Intent (and the Mothership, for that matter). Sure, not every episode will hit a home run. Even VDO acknowledged that there are bound to be some stinkers when they're producing 22 episodes a season. But five of the six L/F storylines were awful, in my opinion. The cases made no sense and/or were left unfinished. Seeds is a prime example. I haven't been able to view any of this season's episodes save for 1 L/F so I can't really comment on if they're weaker than other seasons. From what I've seen posted, Falacci seems to have won people over as the season progresses. I'm not saying everyone, but it seems to be more than 50% tipping in her favor. There was the initial outcry of dislike, but I believe some people are changing their opinion. Has anyone changed their opinion about Falacci as the season progresses? The last Logan/Falacci episode we saw, Senseless, was excellent. I *tolerated* Falacci in Senseless but by no means did I grow to accept her. I have nothing against Alicia Witt; I've liked her in her other work. I just found nothing redeeming about Falacci...everything about her grated on me, from her attitude to her goofy exaggerated facial expressions. In an interview about one of her exchanges with Capt. Ross, Witt said Falacci is motivated by *knowing* that she's right about the issue. Well, that doesn't mean she should act like a spoiled brat stamping her feet...and that's how it came across to me. Lupo has really settled in and it's what, the second or third episode? After viewing the first episode, I took Lupo to being a ticking time bomb, but in this episode, Lupo seems to be relatively laid back or maybe dog-tired. I suppose the disheveled appearance : always the tie off center or loose or sloppy helps establish that feeling. I believe part of it is his background as an undercover officer. Same with Goren. Undercovers spend long periods of time living as other people, usually shady figures. I think they tend to be quiet, solitary, and usually look disheveled. Lupo, new EADA Cutter, and the rest of the Mothership crew are really impressing me so far. I haven't been this excited about watching L&O since Briscoe and Green were partners.
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Post by Cassie on Feb 4, 2008 15:56:53 GMT -5
. I have nothing against Alicia Witt; I've liked her in her other work. I just found nothing redeeming about Falacci...everything about her grated on me, from her attitude to her goofy exaggerated facial expressions. In an interview about one of her exchanges with Capt. Ross, Witt said Falacci is motivated by *knowing* that she's right about the issue. Well, that doesn't mean she should act like a spoiled brat stamping her feet...and that's how it came across to me. nicely said. I feel there is something unnatural about the relationship between Ross and Falacci. He seems to submit to her behavior, and I have a problem with that, being that he is her boss. I don't know if its the characters, or the acting. If Ross wasn't dating Rodgers, I would think he might be dating Falacci I do think "Senseless" is the best LOCI episode ever created.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Feb 4, 2008 18:42:45 GMT -5
I remember the verbal warning Ross gave to Eames when she was trying to explain Goren's behavior to him. It seems he is more tolerant of AW's actions. Because she is new??
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Post by Cassie on Feb 4, 2008 18:47:14 GMT -5
Ross also reminded Wheeler once that he was the Captain, and he needed to be included in all of what was going on. I believe too, that Ross was Wheeler's boss in another department, and he was the one who brought her to MCS. Hey maybe Ross is giving Falacci enough rope to hang herself, so she can be easily replaced when Wheeler comes back to town?
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nosee
Detective
Posts: 220
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Post by nosee on Feb 4, 2008 20:50:15 GMT -5
Lupo, new EADA Cutter, and the rest of the Mothership crew are really impressing me so far. I haven't been this excited about watching L&O since Briscoe and Green were partners. I know what you mean. I am really enjoying watching the mothership with this new crew. And I'm all for it if Lupo is a Goren wantabe. You can't have too much Goren on tv for me. nosee
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