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Post by maherjunkie on Jan 16, 2009 13:02:40 GMT -5
Maybe he wants a life instead of THE life.
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Post by annabelleleigh on Jan 16, 2009 13:19:20 GMT -5
I must respectfully disagree that we are getting the true story from any one insider on the series. The true story is what omniscience might see. What we are getting, by contrast, is direct reporting, but it is still another interpretation. From a great source--it's a fantastic article, yes--but it's still an interpretation..." D-Roe, I second our frank and literate DB with a compliment on this post. Your clarity of thought always delights me. You're such an asset to this board. AL
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Post by tjara on Jan 16, 2009 14:55:12 GMT -5
Yes, I think so, too.
If you really are interested, I will.
I guess part of it comes from my education as a historian. If anything, our whole studies evolve about being critical about sources. It's something I cannot switch off that easily, even when it would be useful.
Other things I just think he shouldn't have mentioned - like the fight he had with VDO. If you're not going to tell what happend, why bother mentioning it? It serves no purpose. Maybe the book will tell what happened and it's in the interview to tease us, but if not, I wouldn't mention it at all.
After I posted in this thread this afternoon I went back to the interview and reread parts of it. And suddenly it hit me. It started at the very beginning, because the of the comment about Vincent and the ladies. I actually believe that, but it really hits close to home for me. It's hard to explain but I had a very good (male) friend, who I have to admit I liked a little bit more but he never returned that kind of feelings because he was in a relationship (and I even loved him more for staying with his girlfriend). But some people couldn't keep their mouth shut and almost broke his relationship. Rereading it, I realize Harris was probably trying to be "jolly", but I resent such talk never the less, even if I'm probably making a mountain out of a molehill, but from that point on I was biased against Harris.
Maybe I shouldn't even reply, but seeing I have given myself away already anyway, I will. I am not a fan of VDO but a fan of Bobby Goren, strange as it may seem to separate these two. I know that Bobby is Vincents "creation" - and I admire his work. But I can only do that - also because I havn't seen any other of his work and I don't really "long" to do so, either. CI is my first "priority" - what I've read about him has most of the time been in sources related to CI. I cannot really "like" Vincent, because I have no idea what kind of person he is. But I do admit I "like" Bobby, even if he's just a fictional character. I know you cannot separate them completely, but they aren't one, either.
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Post by deathroe on Jan 16, 2009 18:23:18 GMT -5
Pardon the personalities that follow--they are skippable, certainly: AL--thank you. You're too kind. DB--I'm not a deconstructionist by persuasion (must take pains to disavow that ), but I am trained to study literature. I'm not saying that to be snobby but as a matter of clarification. I am not trying to be especially elegant but presenting something I take as a basic truth: that I have no absolute proof of anything about anybody else. I have observation, I have what the person I am examining has told me, and I have what I have heard, in sources of varying reliability. In each assertion of truth, there must be some bias. I think 99% impartiality (as in an honest judge, say) is a possibility but one that must be cultivated and striven for. I do not think that it is a given. Also, gossip sucks (I agree, PC, that it's all malicious). It can destroy lives and careers. I know that celebrity gossip might be viewed as a special case, but I still feel like there's a fine line. Slightly parallel case, if not so much: as a college professor, I used to get my knickers in a twist about the various online sites that rate one's teaching performance. I used to take them really personally--good OR bad. I then realized that they were basically no different than your average celebrity gossip site, only they were aimed at ordinary working people. I started wondering how anyone would feel, even a celebrity Even old VDO. Tangentially: if VDO did go astray and managed to put his life together, good for him. Everyone deserves normalcy. But I say, IF. Who really knows. So I think the interview in question is quite fascinating (maybe I'll check out the bourbon balls next time I'm in the 'ville!) and probably as sustained a glimpse as I'm ever going to get--but I do think it's one interpretation. Except for all the stuff about how lovely Erbe is. KE is my hero, and I'm sure it's all true XD
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Post by jeffan on Jan 17, 2009 6:21:30 GMT -5
tjara
I understand the tension given your academic background. Yet, I would read the book for what it is: the experiences of a stand-in on one of your favorite TV shows. I know it is a primary source, but it's not as if you will have to search the book out in some dusty archives somewhere armed with an A4 pad of writing paper and a box of newly-sharpened pencils!
I would just try to enjoy the book for what it actually is.
JF
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Post by DonnaJo on Jan 17, 2009 9:33:43 GMT -5
Tjara, I am also a fan of Robert Goren, the character. and not necessarily VDO, the actor. ;D I have seen all of VDO's work that I can access. I've also read what there is to read out there (both fact & gossip) about him. So I consider myself as knowledgeable as a total stranger can be about a celeb. I do believe that Vincent had an epiphany of some sorts about his personal life after Ron left the show. Ron makes a point of saying in the article that now VDO is focused on his lovely wife and family. So he acknowledges that his experiences with Vincent are old news. The "old" VDO (the guy who rarely ate & isolated himself) seemed totally immersed in his job as Robert Goren on LOCI. He might have been a prick, but look at the result? The "new" VDO (who does eat and is a nicer guy) is not totally immersed. He pursues various outside interests. The result is a very different Goren, one who I am have a hard time finding attractive & exciting. PS: I hope that Ron tells us what VDO did that made him so upset. It must have been a doozy. And I agree with tjara that since he brought it up, he should elaborate.
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leanonme
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 166
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Post by leanonme on Jan 18, 2009 1:20:14 GMT -5
You know as it is true that each witness brings her own personal view as a witness, each one brings a personal view to the reporting...
Let me tell you, I am no big VDO fan, especially of late, but I can relate to the guy. My son is an actor, and we were discussing this issue the other day. I was telling him the stories of VDO on the set, and his reaction was the same sort of "he's a jerk" type of thing.
But I had him back up and REALLY think about what it would be like to be in a project that your face was really the representative of. I mean seriously, I don't know how they manage to pull off the acting they do with some of the scripts they have had. On the other side, sometimes the acting wrecks the script...
While I would like to think that I haven't treated people terribly, I certainly know what it is like to fall into perfectionism, especially when it is my ass on the line.
In my opinion there are two types of "pricks". One is the person who is just rotten- takes out his crap on everyone.
The other is the person that less intense people think is a prick, when it is really a disagreement in standards.
I happen to LOVE the second type of prick! Like Donna said, they make the GREAT characters, they crank everyone's performance up a notch, they are in all walks of life. They are like my best friend, a social worker that everyone thinks is a "prick" because she really still does fight for the underdog, when her coworkers would like to continue to sleepwalk. They are the teachers who dare to challenge the system, or refuse to accept the crap that some want to pass off as "thought." They are the moms who their kids hate because they actually parent the kids and check up on them. They are the Bobby Goren's of the world, and all those like him. They are the ones who make really great products and great art. They are the world changers.
But ask those who are around these world changers, and a good deal of them are likely to call them "pricks"- in the bad sense.
VDO can do what he wants to do with his life. I don't have to work with him, or live with him. But one thing to consider is this... if he had started out on LOCI the "nice guy" he is now, a lot of those people would have been unemployed , because I don't believe the series would have gotten off the ground.
I'm with Donna, the old VDO sure made a better Bobby Goren.
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leanonme
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 166
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Post by leanonme on Jan 18, 2009 1:53:03 GMT -5
Again, though, I can't understand why there is such a reflexive angst-ridden response - yeah or nay - to the stand-in's memory lane. Where's the slander? Great post DB. And, a great question above. Thanks for putting it out there.
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Post by tjara on Jan 18, 2009 6:41:49 GMT -5
Do you think that there's some truth to Kathryn Erbe's statement that they are nearly at their best when they act as little as possible? (I think she says something in that sense in an interview that can be viewed on USA's LOCI site). I do like the more edgy version of Goren as well, so I wonder whether that change was deliberate or not so deliberate. Also, I havn't really seen that much of the "new" Goren, I have to see more to really be able to tell... I was also wondering whether VDO might be suffering from a chronic dissease like Addisson's. I know they stated "exhaustion" when he fainted, but that's not really a diagnosis, is it? I have no problem with keeping such a diagnosis private (he should), but he seems to have some of the sympthoms. Or maybe I'm just over-analyzing... I do get carried away just sometimes, you know
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Post by maherjunkie on Jan 18, 2009 10:29:28 GMT -5
I don't sense he was all bad even then. There are many movie/tv sets where you DO NOT approach the star and they do not give you a going away present.
It seems like VDO was not particularly outgoing, which does not make him bad. If he perks up when beautiful women are around that would not be unusual.
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Post by caitlen on Jan 18, 2009 19:40:40 GMT -5
Maybe Mr D`Onofrio will write his own book one day.
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