cmac
Rookie
Posts: 1
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Post by cmac on May 15, 2006 22:51:38 GMT -5
Has anyone noticed that Goren's personality has been more subdued and not as quirky in the last few episodes? He also does not seem to be the main character, which I think made the show. I know the other two detectives were added so D'Onofrio would not have to make as many episodes, due to exhaustion, but I don't think the show has been as good without his usual antics. Anyone else agree?
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Post by filmnoir5 on May 15, 2006 23:42:54 GMT -5
Has anyone noticed that Goren's personality has been more subdued and not as quirky in the last few episodes? He also does not seem to be the main character, which I think made the show. I know the other two detectives were added so D'Onofrio would not have to make as many episodes, due to exhaustion, but I don't think the show has been as good without his usual antics. Anyone else agree? I read this comment on other boards as well. I wonder if the writers, directors, producers or the networks were reacting to the TV critics complaint that Goren was too over the top. I noticed he was most subdued in season 3. However, that could have had something to do with his working with Bishop and missing Eames or pulling back after the Person Of Interest episode. It could also be a case of characters mellowing over a series run or writers wanting to show maturity with the character. Or it could be that the writers do not feel the quirks always fit the tone of the story. Or in the case of Goren, it could be showing that he is a moody individual who can be subdued in one episode and eccentric in the next episode. |
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Post by Patcat on May 16, 2006 8:26:45 GMT -5
There's definitely been a change--the Goren of the first two seasons is a much more eccentric, in-your-face character. I suppose there are several explanations. One, as filmnoir noted, is that there was a conscious decision by the writers, producers and the actor to tone the character down in response to criticism. Aside from personal annoyance at this charge--it seems to me that many of the critics who find Goren outlandish are fans of MONK and HOUSE, two shows I love but whose characters are even more eccentric--I don't think, based on interviews I've read, that Vincent D'Onofrio or Rene Balcer would radically change the character in response to critics.
Filmnoir's other point, though--about Goren reacting to the loss of Eames--I find more compelling. It's a legitimate take on the character.
Finally, there's Mr. D'Onofrio's health, which may have led to a somewhat more restrained performance on his part. But this is pure speculation on my part.
Patcat
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on May 16, 2006 10:31:01 GMT -5
Yeah thee had been a change but Vincent warned us of the change, a while back, didnt he? I like that they are giving Erbe more lines & face time, I always thought she should have teken the lead to begin with, she being he senior officer & such.
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barb
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 159 
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Post by barb on May 16, 2006 14:09:32 GMT -5
yes i am from the U.K. and now only upto S3 and i feel there is a change as well in Goren with some of his acting such as eye contact and not so much with his hands as well and i feel this to me has changed him quite abit it does not suit him
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Post by filmnoir5 on May 16, 2006 21:21:56 GMT -5
Aside from personal annoyance at this charge--it seems to me that many of the critics who find Goren outlandish are fans of MONK and HOUSE, two shows I love but whose characters are even more eccentric--I don't think, based on interviews I've read, that Vincent D'Onofrio or Rene Balcer would radically change the character in response to critics. Patcat I find it strange that several of the TV critics seem to be fans of House and Monk and the performances of Hugh Laurie and Tony Shalhoub. On the other hand those same critics, Roush from TV Guide and the critic with USA Today, both have stated on more than one occasion that Vincent D'Onofrio is a "fine actor" or how they have been impressed with his other work. However, both have said they aren't fans of L&O:CI because of Vincent D'Onofrio's performance as Robert Goren. I am wondering if this is a case of critics having certain ideas about how L&Os should be presented. A critic for EW said that Goren was a refreshing character in the "reserved" L&O world. Maybe many viewers like Goren because he does not fit the L&O or police procedural mold where others don't like the character for the same reason. I do think L&O:CI would not have celebrated 100 episodes if it was just exactly like the mothership. |
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Post by Patcat on May 17, 2006 9:10:35 GMT -5
Goren and LOCI are the odd ones out in the L&O world, and the character of Goren is extremely divisive. He's not funny like Monk, and he's not as outlandish as House. I've found it interesting that some of the criticisms levelled at Goren are the same thrown at Sherlock Holmes.
And, unfortunately, there's the reaction of the critics to the actor. I admire Vincent D'Onofrio's independence and his desire to let his work speak for itself. But he doesn't go to press junkets and other things, and when he does he seems uncomfortable. I'm not suggesting that Hugh Laurie and/or Tony Shalhoub are kowtowing to the critics, but they do get out a bit more.
I've written elsewhere on this board that the world of a television critic is very weird. The line between being a hack who regurgitates the producers' line and an actual critic is very thin. Tom Shales of the WASHINGTON POST is an actual critic; Michael Ausiello of TV GUIDE is a gossip columnist.
Patcat (with her two bits and more and apologizing for it)
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Post by msboomette on May 17, 2006 11:29:54 GMT -5
Geez...I'm a newbie here as I've been under a rock for the past 7 years...catching up on popular culture was finally made worthwhile when I found L&O-CI. Tell me, please...what is up with all of the cattiness about the actors? Its worse than soap opera boards! I initially found D'Onofrio annoying but now I consider him my favorite character (from all 3 shows). I guess I need some help...who is coming back next season, or better yet, who is leaving the show (all 3 if you know) and why? If rumors are out there, where are they? (I want to see it and decide if I believe it). And, most important for me...why all the nastiness leveled at D'Onofrio? Tony Geary of General Hospital doesn't do the junket route and spends most of his "other life" in Amsterdam...fine by me. If VD has talent to back up his arrogance, perhaps its not arrogance at all. Show me the way...I'm new here and ready to learn the Good, the Bad and (very urgently) the UGLY!
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Post by bobbysgrrl on May 28, 2006 19:41:48 GMT -5
I'm a newbie to this board, and apparently to the latest CIs as well. I started watching an ep recently, not realizing I was watching the current season (when Logan inadvertantly shoots a cop), and I kept watching... and watching... and wondering where my Goren and Eames were. I don't know if I'm going to start a flamewar, but I seriously dislike Logan. A lot. I won't watch the earlier L&Os with him and without Lenny Briscoe. So what happens? I see an ad for another recent CI ep, and sure enough, there's Logan.
I know this thread is to do with Bobby's character, and I'm wondering about those recent changes. Are they phasing Vincent and Katie out, and what's his face and her face in? If so, I'm going to completely stop watching CI (at least these recent ones).
As for changes in Goren's character, I love him the way he was and is (that is, if I can SEE him, not Logan). I love 'House' and Hugh Laurie too. "Monk" is just too weird, but funny the few times I've seen the show. Mom lived for that show.
As for Mr. D'Onofrio's acting, I think he's extremely good. Would you believe I was watching L&O CI for MONTHS before I realized I was watching "Edgar" from "Men in Black"? That's how good an actor he is, doing two such disparate characters. It was some angle shot or pose, but I finally realized, HEY, that's EDGAR!
Glad to have found this board. I'm trying my hand at my first CI fanfic, and wanted to catch up on Bobby and Alex for characterization tips. Can't wait to look around the board some more.
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