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Post by annabelleleigh on Jun 22, 2009 14:06:27 GMT -5
Written by Academy Award winner scenarist and G/E showrunner Walon Green. Story by Green and Antoinette Stella.
Green nailed it. I'm so glad to see a team scripting effort, a la the mothership and early CI. Working in tandem with Green can only make Stella a better CI writer.
The aria was superb but let's not forget to credit the writer as well as the actor.
AL
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Post by Patcat on Jun 22, 2009 15:10:43 GMT -5
It was an excellent piece of writing, and I hope I've noted that in my comments.
Patcat
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LO:CI
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 141
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Post by LO:CI on Jun 22, 2009 15:58:07 GMT -5
This has been the very best episode for a long time. It was great. I'm happy to have some old LOCI back (and of course I'm happy to see the old Goren back, too!)
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Post by idget on Jun 22, 2009 18:21:53 GMT -5
This was to have originally been the season ender for the Goren and Eames episodes. I think once all the episodes have aired if one watches them in the order they were suppose to originally be shown one will see Vincent's subtle yet brilliant performance of bringing Goren slowly back to life. I think this was suppose to be the crowning achievement of that process. This aria would have been the exclamation point of Goren's return to life. Also I think it would have been quite fitting to end the season with the shot of Ross, Goren and Eames standing together united for a change, after successfully working so well together and finding the girl. I think USA did a real disservice to Vincent and his fans by screwing with the order of the episodes.
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Post by Moonbeam on Jun 22, 2009 18:50:02 GMT -5
The creepy portrait over the right shoulder of David during the aria, visually stunning. Nice.
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Post by caitlen on Jun 23, 2009 1:55:11 GMT -5
This was to have originally been the season ender for the Goren and Eames episodes. I think once all the episodes have aired if one watches them in the order they were suppose to originally be shown one will see Vincent's subtle yet brilliant performance of bringing Goren slowly back to life. I think this was suppose to be the crowning achievement of that process. This aria would have been the exclamation point of Goren's return to life. Also I think it would have been quite fitting to end the season with the shot of Ross, Goren and Eames standing together united for a change, after successfully working so well together and finding the girl. I think USA did a real disservice to Vincent and his fans by screwing with the order of the episodes. The whole episode airing is quite the puzzle, something i find odd that nobody has weighed in on. Hopefully USA will at some point give a reason....or not The episode was well written, but without an actor like Vincent to deliver it, would have been missed imho. Watching all the Goren/Eames episodes in the correct order, will definitely make for a greater in depth viewing per se.
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Post by tjara on Jun 23, 2009 2:02:36 GMT -5
Idget, you took the words outta my mouth. My point exactly.
Other than that, I'm not yet really able to comment on FV, because I really need to digest that one. However, I did like it a lot.
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heikimikey
Silver Shield Investigator
Communication Junkie
Posts: 100
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Post by heikimikey on Jun 23, 2009 7:53:01 GMT -5
May I ask where you get the information on the order that actually should have been aired originally? This is so interesting, especially for someone from the other side of the ocean.... Well, I definitely am happy that they aired this episode now, since I was really beginning to see sinking chances for a season 9. I fully trust (and trusted) in VDOs performance, but I did not like the stories and I had the feeling that the whole team of writers took much more care of the Nichols/Wheeler episodes than the ones with Goren/Eames. I am absolutely happy this ended! As for the episode itself: I only watched it five minutes ago and am still as breathless and shaken as many of you were after watching it (and I just watched the end three times...) I am going to vote for an A+ in the other thread now and then digest. And then watch it again. Just that much: I am absolutely thrilled with the way Goren actively dealt with this mans absolutely misled "Faith" and made him see the errors of his way. Wether out his own faith (Goren was on a Catholic school, do I remember that right?) or wether he just (once again) was brilliant enough to creep into the mind of the criminal and use it against him, I loved the message: God does not command you to kill, thank you. By the way: would anyone be so kind to explain the use of the term "aria" in this context to a non-native speaker? My dictionary does have limits...
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Post by Patcat on Jun 23, 2009 9:03:29 GMT -5
The "Aria" is the term some of the LOCI writers use for the scene where Goren confronts the criminal. It usually occurs near the end of an episode, and is really more of a "duet" usually. Goren's confrontation/interrogation of Paul in this episode is one of the best of these I've seen in some time, and may well be one of the classic ones. You're probably familiar with aria as an operatic term for a sung soliquoy.
I just noticed something last night when I watched the repeat--There is a lot of blood in this episode, but for all of the victims--even the victim of the bomb attack and the dog--the blood is almost in a halo around the victim. Now, I may reading too much into this, but it's almost as if the victims have been baptized by their own blood.
Patcat
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Post by idget on Jun 23, 2009 9:07:24 GMT -5
Heikimikey I have posted the order of the filming episodes under general CI discussion. Peachy had posted it originally on another board. Aria is a term that, I think the original CI writers termed, to describe the final confrontation between Goren and the Criminal. Usually takes place in the interview room, but some like this one takes place elsewhere.
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Post by tjara on Jun 23, 2009 9:37:47 GMT -5
There was considerably too much blood for me in the ep, I thought it was a little unlike CI. However, it didn't change the fact that the ep was great. heikimikeyI think wikipedia (english) has all original airdates and production numbers.
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Post by Patcat on Jun 23, 2009 10:32:03 GMT -5
Oh, and another thought (or overthought, since I may be overthinking): Paul thought of himself as God's shepherd, and he owned a German Shepherd. And it seemed to me there was some extra focus on the dog.
Patcat
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heikimikey
Silver Shield Investigator
Communication Junkie
Posts: 100
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Post by heikimikey on Jun 23, 2009 14:20:00 GMT -5
Wow, thanks again for all your nice replies and explanations. Being a choir singer I knew the term "aria" of course and meanwhile figured somehow that you probably meant the interrogation scenes. But, before I embarass myself by using a wrong term I decided to ask this time (I remember all the questions about "unison sucks" and meanwhile I looked into my music and found the word, so it does exist ...but is obviously not neccessarily used the way I use it.......) Idget, thanks for the info, I have found the thread meanwhile (reading abilities are advantageous......), caitlen, thanks for the links and info and Tjara, thank you for the info, but I downloaded the wikipedia episode guide already and currently they only have the episodes until "The Glory that was" and in the order they were actually aired, not the originally planned one. I was very impressed with this episode and all your contributions about the religious allegories and background of it. I noticed the halos and thought in your direction, patcat, but I did not dare to start something about it. Although or because I consider myself a believer I could have easily done without the "God commanded me to do it"-speech. In my opinion, the whole episode would have been perfectly believable if Paul had "just" decided to clear up after himself (which I believed he was doing until the moment he started the speech, holding monologues about revelation or not) when he decided to leave this world and go to a better place because everything was "falling apart": saving his sister-in-law and her unsuccessful husband, awaiting a baby, from a life unprotected by his support after he lost his job (he even actually said it: "sorry, that is all I can do for you"! He did not say somethin like "I am taking you to a better world for the greater Glory of God"....!). Saving his wife from a life without him, where he clearly did not consider her to be able to make it without his spiritual guidance anyway. Saving the school and other upright Christian parents from the evil influence and questioning of authority of a teacher who had already fallen to temptation. Saving his former customers from the former colleague who assisted in and benefit from scapegoating him. Saving his pure (and poor) little daughter from the danger of giving in to temptations of all kind (again, without the grace of his spirtiual guidance....) and last not least saving his mother from the pain and the shame an unfaithful world which would not understand the wonderful thing he had done would put on her. He even cared for the dog not to come into wrong hands. This all in the recurring miscreed that God would understand and support his conduct, the aria would still have been as brilliant, as powerful and as convincing as it was, with VDOs excellent performance and Gorens change and adaptation through that interrogation, as patcat perfectly put it. In Germany, we call what Paul did "extended suicide", a horribly harmless term for someone who slaughters his family because he is too cowardous to face the world but yet in his hubris believes that his family is better off dead than having to live without him. Oh, and patcat: there are millions of people who are obsessed with Jesus, the Peacemaker. It is in the nature of things that those people are normally a) not going around slaughtering people and b) are never interesting enough for movies, shows or the yellow press.....they are usually just considered poor idiots with a helper syndrome. Still, for me this was definitely the best episode this season.
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Post by DonnaJo on Jun 23, 2009 16:56:26 GMT -5
I really enjoyed your insights, heiki. You are right about the psyche of those who commit extended suicides. Are these people mentally ill, or just so vain & self absorbed that they truly believe that others cannot survive without them? As far as the halo theory goes, I don't think the blood around the heads were supposed to signify halos. IMO, It's just the way blood seeps out of a head wound. And I also noticed that they deliberately did a close up of the German Shepard so we, the viewers, would recognize that it was the same family dog that was murdered. As if we needed that spelled out?
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Post by Patcat on Jun 23, 2009 18:36:45 GMT -5
DonnaJo; They could be spelling it out, but this episode was so good in so many ways that I prefer to think that there's some symbolism about the German Shepherd, especially since Paul repeats the line about being "God's Shepherd."
Your observations are great heiki. I do have a problem the term "extended suicide". These things are "murder suicides", and, as a friend of mine often says, the problem is they kill the wrong person last.
Patcat
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