susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
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Post by susan1212 on Jun 23, 2009 21:06:57 GMT -5
I found this to be the best written episode so far this year. It was wonderful and definitely “old school” LOCI. Vincent was so incredible in the aria, I was awestruck. Of course the writing was a big part of the success of the aria, but not many actors can deliver the way Vincent can. If we wrote the words down that he spoke, they would be exciting, but he makes them thrilling! Chills ran down my spine at the end and I felt so happy for all of them that they were able to save a life! As drsues noted, “it must have been a shot in the arm for Goren to bring one back alive.”
The framed stone rubbings in each home (crime scene) we visited were a puzzle to me. I did a little googling and found out they are a form of preserving family history, and used by sociologists as well, who decipher the symbolism of the drawings and markings on the old gravestones to help them learn about the culture of that particular society. Today, some people do stone rubbing as a craft or hobby, and there is some concern as to the damage unskilled hobbyists are contributing to the gravestones themselves by stone rubbing them incorrectly. I found it fascinating that the stone rubbing would become the key to unlock the whereabouts of Kathy.
And when David was making the pipe bomb for the bank president, I noticed an eight of hearts playing card on-top of shot gun shells on his workshop tabletop. He was planning to kill eight people that he loved – his sister-in-law, his brother-in-law, their unborn child, his wife, his daughter, his mother, himself and...who? Did he consider the drama teacher or the bank president persons he loved? (seems odd to me) And if so, did he then not consider the unborn child as a life?(highly unlikely for a conservative Christian) Or was he thinking of the family dog?(does his credo include animals having souls that go to heaven? Personally, I would hope so, but I find it hard to believe that an organized religion would affirm that.) Any thoughts?
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heikimikey
Silver Shield Investigator
Communication Junkie
Posts: 100
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Post by heikimikey on Jun 24, 2009 0:22:53 GMT -5
Funny, I just looked the meaning of Eight of Hearts up in a skat dictionary and there the Eight of Hearts stands for "Aim in life, Good News".....fitting somehow. Maybe this was the "guideline", not the numer. Or maybe that was more something like a "writers goodie" - (would you say it like that?)
I love how you guys notice these little details - thus, I enjoy the show even more!
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heikimikey
Silver Shield Investigator
Communication Junkie
Posts: 100
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Post by heikimikey on Jun 24, 2009 0:26:45 GMT -5
Patcat: You are so right! It is the legal term in Germany, because our law system (which works very much different than the American one) considers these people mentally ill. And although I am a paralegal, totally convinced by our system (naturally ) and definitely not a hardlinder (normally......) I hate that term, too. I think it unneccessarily downplays the horrible deed. Ill or not - psychopathic murder stays psychopathic murder. I liked your friends statement - so right!
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Post by tjara on Jun 24, 2009 2:11:39 GMT -5
I think the killing of the dog was to symbolize that Paul had gone off the deep end. It's no coincidence that many murderers have a history of cruelty with animals.
However, the analogy with the Shepard is interesting.
I'd noticed the "Eight of Hearts", too, but I couldn't make sense of it yet. Were did you find that info, Heidimikey? Did you just Google "Eight of Hearts"?
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heikimikey
Silver Shield Investigator
Communication Junkie
Posts: 100
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Post by heikimikey on Jun 24, 2009 7:59:30 GMT -5
YUP. Googled it in German and found a Skat-homepage. ;D
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Post by Moonbeam on Jun 24, 2009 8:14:02 GMT -5
What about the guy's last name, Devildis (sp)? Was it so obvious to everyone but me, it wasn't worth mentioning?
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Post by tjara on Jun 24, 2009 8:36:24 GMT -5
Oh my moonbeam, of course...!!
Thanks Heikimikey, will try the eight of hearts, then...
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Post by idget on Jun 24, 2009 16:24:27 GMT -5
Tjara, I don't know why the father killed the the German Shepard or what the writers were trying to imply by it, but usually the killing of animals is done by antisocial individuals before they graduate into killing and torturing humans. The father portrayed in this episode is no antisocial. The killing of the dog does seem unnecessary to his aim of making sure everyone goes to heaven. I guess I need to give this some more thought.
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Post by DonnaJo on Jun 24, 2009 17:30:53 GMT -5
Susan, I do believe that Paul included the family pet in his beloved eight family members. There isn't anything that I know of that says that Christians do not believe that pets join us in heaven. I know that I believe it, and I'm Christian. Everyone I know who is Christian does as well.
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Post by tjara on Jun 24, 2009 18:00:01 GMT -5
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Post by lovebug on Jun 24, 2009 18:07:39 GMT -5
Best Episode this season! Can't wait for next week-looks like it could be the best yet! In regards to the dog maybe he was killed because, with the family gone there wouldn't be anyone to care for it. This crazy man killed family in the name of God (really just to hide his own failures and perverted thoughts) taking the life of his daughter's beloved pet doesn't seem implausable
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Post by tjara on Jun 26, 2009 18:35:29 GMT -5
Since we'd been discussing it. I wrote this for my blog, but since quite a few people here contributed, I thought I'd post it here, too: Why an Eight of Hearts? There’s the obvious reason – Paul is planning to kill eight people: His brother-in-law and his sister-in-law as well as their unborn child, the drama teacher, his former boss, his mother, his wife and his daughter - eight beating hearts that he plans to stop. The number eight commonly symbolizes eternity, not only in mathematics, but also in philosophy. Eternity, the better afterlife, this is where Paul thought he was sending the people he killed. But there had to be more to that card, so I had the idea to look whether the “Eight of Hearts” had a different meaning, a hidden message. It does. Of course, there are a number of meanings, but the following seem to be the common denominators: In Tarot Cards, the eight of hearts signifies disappointment, emotional setback, betrayal, or injury of the heart. Sometimes, this image is conveyed by showing a young woman who has just been molested on the face of the card. Honestly, this description makes me cringe. I don’t think I have to argue that Paul Devildis clearly betrays his family and their trust in him. His last name poignantly is “Devildis” – the devil, the master of betrayal. And there was the moment in the aria in which Goren suggested that Paul was attracted to his daughter in an impure way, and I found that similarity simply shocking. But Tarot cards aren’t the only ones who have hidden meanings – regular cards like the one we saw in LOCI, do, too. The Eight of Hearts symbolizes good messages and life goals. It also symbolizes strong love that can survive anything. Loving someone is equated to being unselfish, and only those who love truly will be able to see what they are capable of doing. So much food for thought. I guess one could say that Paul thought he was a failure, that he hadn’t reached his life goals, and of course there seems to be a connection between “good message” and scripture, especially since Paul kept quoting it for his reason to kill. Never mind that he called himself a “shepherd” and that the family owned a German Shepherd Dog - the dog that Paul killed, probably because he knew that by killing his family, he was loosing his position as the shepherd. Coming full circle, the shepherd also is a common symbol in the Bible. And when it came to loving, one could probably say that Paul started at the other end of the spectrum, his love was so selfish that he thought he had to kill his family to send them to the better afterlife. But during the aria he realized that if he really loved his daughter, he had to tell Goren where she was. His love survived his killing spree and because he was able to feel the unselfish love he realized that saving her was right. Honestly, I’m completely awestruck by all the symolism and messages conveyed in this wonderful episode of LOCI. It’s definitely going down as one of the GREAT episodes in my book. tjaras-blog.blogspot.com/2009/06/visual-loci-eight-of-hearts.html
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susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
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Post by susan1212 on Jun 26, 2009 23:57:58 GMT -5
Susan, I do believe that Paul included the family pet in his beloved eight family members. There isn't anything that I know of that says that Christians do not believe that pets join us in heaven. I know that I believe it, and I'm Christian. Everyone I know who is Christian does as well. I was raised a Catholic and years ago in Catholic School we were taught that animals do not go to heaven as they have no souls. In later years, the teachings changed saying that our pets have souls- meaning "life", but not spiritual souls, as humans do. Because pets are not morally responsible for their behavior, there souls died when their bodies died, and therefore did not go to heaven. I have not been a participating Catholic for a few years, but if the teachings have again changed to include pets going to heaven, that is good news.
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Post by DonnaJo on Jun 27, 2009 6:41:00 GMT -5
Hmmm.......Susan, what you wrote made me wonder exactly what a rigid, conservative Christian male like Paul would believe regarding the souls of animals?
Regardless of what is official out there, every Catholic I know who's beloved pet has passed away believes they will see them in heaven. I mean, who could imagine God offering us a heaven without being reunited with our pets? How heavenly would that be? Now Paul...who knows what he believes?
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susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
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Post by susan1212 on Jun 27, 2009 11:49:37 GMT -5
Regarding our beliefs and the Catholic Church's beliefs, I guess we'll find out the truth when we get there! Regarding Paul, we can only imagine. But I don't think I want to delve into a bizarre mind like his.
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