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Post by Moonbeam on Nov 10, 2009 22:11:46 GMT -5
I just saw a promo for USA and...where "characters are welcome!" ...even Goren and Eames. Are they kidding? Now that the two popular leads are out, they've decided to promote/use them?
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Post by outerbankschick on Nov 10, 2009 22:42:47 GMT -5
:hands over the waste can: I'll join you.
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Post by Techguy on Nov 10, 2009 23:55:48 GMT -5
The only situation similar to the CI cast changes vs. continued loyalty to the show that I can think of is in sports. You root for a team and perhaps have a favorite player or two. If the player gets traded, do you still root for the player on another team, do you continue to root for the original team, or do you do both? I've been in that situation several times, and personally I continued to root for the original team but followed the stats and performance of my favorite players with their new teams. If the player's new team played the one I root for, I'd hope the player would do well but I'd still want MY TEAM to win. Maybe the CI cast situation is different for others here, depending on how personally invested they are with the show and characters.
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Post by outerbankschick on Nov 11, 2009 0:28:29 GMT -5
Interesting analogy, Techguy. I'd have to say that for me this whole thing is like the star players being kicked off the team after they delivered numerous winning seasons and won the championship game to boot. Not that they switched teams because they were traded, but that they were dumped completely out of the league. If VDO, KE, and EB had left completely of their own volition, and this had not been handled the way it has been, my ire would not have been kindled to the degree that it has. As it is, this appears to be largely motivated by NBCU's desire to rid themselves of Wolf Productions and those fat checks they are writing him. Once again, money comes first, above content and quality. Check out this story that was on my AOL homepage last night. Gives the Mothership 3 to 1 odds of being canceled. insidetv.aol.com/2009/11/09/tv-shows-most-likely-to-be-canceled-odds/?icid=main
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Post by wilmingtonfan on Nov 11, 2009 1:14:02 GMT -5
I understand the analogy Techguy and some will probably agree, but I don't. A sports team goes on forever (unless they move the team) and a team is usually based in a geographic area that draws fan loyalty. The base for the fan support is the game itself which the fans love and the fact that it is "local" and draws on a certain geographic area. The game will always go on, even if the players don't -- players frequently change teams and fans often want them to -- to improve the team so it can bring home a championship. In a television show, the concept of the show (i.e. game) is not as important as the character -- you get invested in the characters more than the "show". Shows don't last and certainly don't survive significant cast changes. This show is more like SVU than the original and is more character driven. SVU wouldn't survive without Olivia and Elliott, just as CI won't survive without Goren & Eames. I know some will continue to watch --nothing wrong with that. I won't be one of them. The show will not be the same. I also suspect that most viewers will feel the same. I would like to know a show that has survived such a drastic change of the main cast. I haven't been able to think of one, although there may be one out there. As I have posted elsewhere (maybe on the thread that was sent to the glue factory) I think they have set the show up for failure. If they want it to survive with JG, they should have handled it much differently -- a lot of the base fans have been alienated. I think they have done a serious disservice to JG in how this has transpired and I would not want to be in his shoes. I am sure he wants a steady gig and thought this would be one. I am also sure he has learned a lot by seeing how they have treated EB, KE & VDO.
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Post by DonnaJo on Nov 11, 2009 7:53:51 GMT -5
I like your analogy, Techguy. I know that over the years, the Yankees have gotten rid of a few players that were near and dear to my son's heart. Especially Tino Martinez, who was a major reason for their successes and who did not want to leave. Thanks for the link, OBC. I do hope that those who predict that the mothership will be canceled are wrong about that. I certainly don't see it having the same odds as "Mercy" does. I posted a link on one of the mothership threads that shows the series won both its time slots last Friday evening. It's doing well, especially for an NBC show. And the longer it runs, the more episodes are generated that can be used and sold for reruns all over the world. You can't say that for most of these other shows that are listed as being canceled.
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Post by Patcat on Nov 11, 2009 9:07:34 GMT -5
Yes, an interesting analogy, TG. As I've written, I'll likely give LOCI a chance because of my fondness for Mr. Golblum and his character and loyalty to LOCI. But all of this could have been handled much better. You only need to look at how well USA is handling the end of MONK. Now, admittedly LOCI isn't a homegrown USA project, and it appears that Mr. D'Onofrio and Ms. Erbe's departures weren't their own decisions.
So, what's NBC going to replace L&O with? There are reports that the Jay Leno experiment is falling faster than the Berlin Wall did, with the ratings not even reaching the pittance NBC needed to justify this move.
Patcat
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Post by wilmingtonfan on Nov 11, 2009 9:28:37 GMT -5
Not quite sure where to post, so feel free to move if necessary. Well, the man who drove NBC into the ground still manages to survive and I can't figure it out. Jeff Zucker will head the new company when Comcast buys in and owns 51% of a stake in NBCU. There will be no mandated exit for Zucker. What are these people thinking? See this link for the article. www.reuters.com/article/technology-media-telco-SP/idUSN1051243320091110?
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Post by BegToDiffer on Nov 11, 2009 10:44:32 GMT -5
Very interesting, Techguy. Speaking with the voice of experience regarding a sports team: We had original team and loyal fans. We lost original team to another city. Hearts broken. Could not root for team in new city. Made voodoo dolls of the team owner for taking our team away. Waited in misery. Got new team. Loyal fans rooted and rooted. Funny, but hearts still broken. New team not so good. Really miss old team.
Sounds a little like LOCI to me.
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Post by Patcat on Nov 11, 2009 11:05:39 GMT -5
BegtoDiffer--I have this terrible feeling you may be speaking of the Indianapolis Colts. I think I can understand the feelings of the Baltimore fans. My impression is that the elder Mr. Irsay (the Colts owner who took the team away in the middle of the night) was not always likable. His son, now the owner, has managed to create a good image for himself in Indianapolis. I'm not a great football fan, but I've come to like the Colts, not just, I hope, because they win, but because the team's management and its players go to great lengths to make a good impression in the city. Peyton Manning, the quarterback, is the greatest example of this, helping to fund a fine children's hospital and popping up at all sorts of charity events. Which, I suppose, leads a bit into Techguy's discussion and leads me to question if Peyton Manning and Vincent D'Onofrio are somehow linked.
Patcat
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Post by alliehalliwell on Nov 11, 2009 19:34:09 GMT -5
With using the sports analogy, if you get rid of 80% of the team's players, do you expect people to keep watching loyally like they had been? No. I'm sure some will purely because of the name/reputation but the loyal fans will feel cheated.
With LOCI, they're taking 4 out of 5 (80%) of the main characters away. Despite any curiosity I might have I don't know if I can watch the show without the characters I love. I include Wheeler and Ross in this too - I don't know if anyone remembers from the other board but I used to get annoyed with Ross and Wheeler. I didn't like them to start with but gradually I've come to like them a lot. It'll be difficult for people like me, who take some warming up to for some new characters - to like the new LOCI enough to keep watching. On the other hand, they might save the show if the new characters are very loveable...but I doubt it.
Either way, I'll be watching the premire and maybe the episode following, for hopes of a mention of the ones leaving, and out of pure curiosity. If it becomes like any other procedural crime show then that's when I'll likely be done with LOCI.
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Post by Moonbeam on Nov 11, 2009 22:27:20 GMT -5
Peyton Manning and VDO linked? Hah! Good one Patcat. They're both very good at what they do. Good call. I'll give LOCI one more chance because I'm curious and besides, who doesn't love a good train wreck? Nothing against JG, but really, his performance is just a reinvention of a good solid character.
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Post by maherjunkie on Nov 12, 2009 1:27:40 GMT -5
You know how many times Winona Ryder hears that line?
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Post by tere on Nov 12, 2009 10:01:36 GMT -5
Now that it's been mentioned, a sports analogy is exactly the way I feel about LOCI. To me, LOCI without Goren & Eames (and Logan, because he is Law & Order) is like the Pacers without Reggie Miller. I may try to watch, but the enthusiasm is gone.
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Post by aintnocrime on Nov 12, 2009 19:25:03 GMT -5
The only situation similar to the CI cast changes vs. continued loyalty to the show that I can think of is in sports. You root for a team and perhaps have a favorite player or two. If the player gets traded, do you still root for the player on another team, do you continue to root for the original team, or do you do both? I've been in that situation several times, and personally I continued to root for the original team but followed the stats and performance of my favorite players with their new teams. If the player's new team played the one I root for, I'd hope the player would do well but I'd still want MY TEAM to win. Maybe the CI cast situation is different for others here, depending on how personally invested they are with the show and characters. Yeah, we call it "rooting for the laundry." But the analogy doesn't fit in this case because even though Carlton Fisk (my favorite) was basically given the boot from the Red Sox, the team still played at Fenway Park in its familiar uniforms with the same sausage vendors out on Yawkey Way. Therefore, I was still a Red Sox fan despite his absence. As far as LOCI goes, it's more like when the Dodgers moved out of Brooklyn and devoted fans like my father refused to acknowledge the existence of That Los Angeles Team.
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