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Post by Techguy on Apr 9, 2010 21:17:42 GMT -5
I don't get how this is a satisfactory send-off for G/E at all. It is so incredibly nihilistic, with no sense of a positive future for either of them, it's morbidly depressing. To think that so much time and expense went into a contived plot involving pirates and weapons and so little to the G/E interactions as they inform their partnership is terribly disappointing. No wonder I felt detached and distanced from this aberration. It was almost as though I was looking at strangers rather than the familiar faces I'd grown accustomed to all this time.
The few bones thrown our way as positives, the hug and kiss and whatever, seemed to come out of nowhere rather than underline and underscore what G/E has been about for over 8 years. He's fired, she quits, and life goes on...within you and without you. Cue up the Beatles song of the same name, only follow it with the more appropriate Rolling Stones song "I Can't Get No Satisfaction."
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Post by Moonbeam on Apr 9, 2010 23:48:10 GMT -5
It has been established Eames never wanted to be part of the "good ol' boys club." I think she full well understood what the brass wanted from her and thought, "Not in your life time." Besides, if Goren had been dragged through a hearing, wouldn't that have put her through the process as well?
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 10, 2010 7:17:59 GMT -5
I wish we would have seen that interplay between Alex and her sister, which was written but never aired. Remember that? A scene that might have revealed Eames disenfranchisement with the NYPD, and that she was getting burned out by the job. Something like that was needed as a prelude for her resignation to make sense. Other than the frustrations of defending Bobby, Alex has always been depicted as satisfied with her career. just a thought.
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Post by Patcat on Apr 10, 2010 16:37:47 GMT -5
All of this is very good criticism of this story. The constant hammering of Bobby by the Brass has never made much sense to me, and it seems to me that if a cop ever had legitimate complaints against his treatment, it's Bobby Goren. I think he could sue the department for something. But this is television, after all, and not a documentary. I think that at one point Alex probably had thoughts of being a captain or even more. But Bobby reinforced what was already part of her makeup--that it was more important to be a good cop and a good detective than to be part of the Brass. It struck me that Bobby had reached a point where he nothing left to lose. Nothing--not the loss of his badge, the loss of his freedom, the loss of his sanity, the loss of his life--could keep him from the goal of finding whoever murdered his captain. I think only a threat to Alex could scare him.
I ask--was Ross worthy of such devotion?
Patcat
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Post by annabelleleigh on Apr 11, 2010 13:12:49 GMT -5
OK......I've replayed the FBI/Goren encounter. It does sound as if Goren will be working with the woman from the FBI, but just to finish up the work that Ross was doing. I watched the episode again late last night. I think you're right DJ -- Goren joined the FBI for this case and -- if one chooses to imagine it -- maybe more. Clearly he doesn't want to fight his way back onto the NYPD this time, and he seems reasonably okay with the direction in which he's heading. Especially since he believes Eames has finally received the recognition she deserves and is off to a new career as head of MCS. On the other hand, our noble Eames seems sick with grief over losing her partner. But we know she's tough, and she'll recover. That's the one advantage of a vague ending in which neither Goren nor Eames was shot down; blown up; infected by terminal disease; maimed; or imprisoned. Anyone who wants to continue to dwell on these characters can easily project better post-series "lives" for them. Given the tragic CI scenarios of the last several seasons, who thought (seriously) that we were going to get a specific, blue-sky, stage-right exit? AL
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Post by outerbankschick on Apr 11, 2010 13:40:26 GMT -5
Oh, AL I totally expected something just like this. Maybe that is why I wasn't so angry when it ended. the L&O universe is one where the characters are often written out with only a flippant mention regarding what happened to them. And really, sweet, happy endings are not the Criminal Intent way so...
I do think that the time given to the Goren and Eames story should have been much more significant. I did at least expect that much. That is where I am most disappointed in the way it played out. They made such a big deal out of that second part, too, and how Bobby would put it "all on the line" and then they highlighted the Nichols/Stevens partnership and tried to introduce a new character while simultaneously dealing with the complexities of the G/E partnership, the Brass, the whole FBI undercover thing...
The focus was put in the wrong place. I think they should have had just Nichols in the ep and then brought Stevens in the following week. The story would have been better had it been Eames trying to work with Nichols "officially" and backing up Goren "unofficially".
And the "Eames-makes-Lt.-then-Captain-ex machina" was just lame.
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Post by Patcat on Apr 11, 2010 16:55:46 GMT -5
AL--I'm not dismissing the idea Goren is working at least temporarily for the FBI, but I still question whether he'd want to work with the FBI and its overly hierarchial structure or whether the FBI would want Goren after his frequent showing up the Bureau and the whole Declan Gage debacle.
Was the actress playing the female FBI agent the same one who played the agent in REVOLUTION?
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 12, 2010 8:23:00 GMT -5
It has been established Eames never wanted to be part of the "good ol' boys club." I think she full well understood what the brass wanted from her and thought, "Not in your life time." Besides, if Goren had been dragged through a hearing, wouldn't that have put her through the process as well? Yes, Moonbeam. And not to mention - what better way for the hateful Chief Of Detectives to stop Goren from challenging his firing than to have Eames do the dirty deed? Forcing Goren to include her in the charges. He would never do that. He'd rather lose his pension than hurt her.
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Post by Patcat on Apr 13, 2010 8:16:20 GMT -5
So, I saw the repeat last night on USA, and I'm still left feeling "Uh?" about the whole Somali pirates/new country thing. Way, way out there and far too complicated. The acting was excellent, and the snark lines terrific. Jeff Goldblum was splendid, and I'll watch the series just to see what he does with Nichols.
But, to repeat myself, Goren and Eames, and Mr. D'Onofrio and Ms. Erbe, deserved much better.
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 13, 2010 8:35:29 GMT -5
Not that it matters......but I was wondering if Goren could have saved himself when he was being reprimanded by the pro temp Chief?
Two reasons. One, the nice Lieutenant was practically begging Bobby to give him some reason for manhandling the witness. Something he could challenge the FBI with. As usual, Goren says nothing. Very noble, but not smart, IMO.
Secondly, Goren abruptly walks out of the meeting, with the Lieutenant following him say "we're not done here." It's as if he gave the temporary Chief no alternative but to suspend him.
Now maybe nothing Goren said or did would have changed the decision, but I say at least try. Eames talked the Lieutenant out of giving Goren a psych evaluation, so I see the man as being flexible.
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Post by Patcat on Apr 13, 2010 9:54:58 GMT -5
I thought (and I miss these sort of things so I could be wrong) that Bobby manhandled a suspect. And two FBI agents. But at the same time Bobby and Alex did have a warrant. I don't know...All of that was handled far too murkily for my taste and limited intelligence.
Watching Bobby deal with the FBI after he was blindfolded and taken for a ride, I was struck by the desperate need he had to be of use to them. Is there something about Bobby Goren that compels him to be of use to others? That makes him think he's not alive unless he's serving others? I wouldn't regard this as a bad thing, mind you, but just wondered.
I liked the "nice lieutenant", at least until he seemed to be in on the conspiracy to get Eames to fire Goren. I thought there was an unusual dynamic between him and the Chief of D's. It's almost as if the lieutenant was in control and the Chief deferred to him. But maybe I'm thinking too much. I'd really appreciate other perspectives.
Patcat
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Post by quietfireca on Apr 14, 2010 19:11:21 GMT -5
It struck me that Bobby had reached a point where he nothing left to lose. Nothing--not the loss of his badge, the loss of his freedom, the loss of his sanity, the loss of his life--could keep him from the goal of finding whoever murdered his captain. I think only a threat to Alex could scare him. I ask--was Ross worthy of such devotion? Patcat Whew, if this was 6 months ago, I would say no. It seemed like it was another contrived element to get to the endpoint quickly. Way to quickly to sit well.
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untitled
Detective
Stuff the Fluff! Save Goren & Eames!
Posts: 274
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Post by untitled on Apr 14, 2010 19:40:28 GMT -5
One thing I didn't mention that bothered me about this episode. When Goren is suspended - he defers to Nichols and keeping in touch with Eames seemed like an after thought to me.
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Post by quietfireca on Apr 14, 2010 19:49:19 GMT -5
One thing I didn't mention that bothered me about this episode. When Goren is suspended - he defers to Nichols and keeping in touch with Eames seemed like an after thought to me. Yes, it was a weird scene. I've resolved it this way: He could probably feel her disapproval and the sting of her little snark, so he talked to Nichols first. As soon as he said "And with you", she seemed to soften and realize that he was still "all watts burning" on the case, even though he had done nothing to help himself in front of Moss. (That might have annoyed her, but I'm sure he was formulating his plan as it was happening, in typical Goren style) Hm, I might be ready to think more about this epi with a week behind me...
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Post by Patcat on Apr 15, 2010 8:02:14 GMT -5
H-m-m. My take on the Goren/Eames/Nichols dynamic was that Goren and Eames had already discussed what was happening. Goren's nod to Eames in front of Nichols was to let Nichols know that they were in sync with each other and would be talking to each other.
Patcat
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