|
Post by maherjunkie on Aug 27, 2011 8:43:45 GMT -5
He was. You don't tell anybody when you are undercover. What is it about that that she, the former vice cop, doesn't understand?
This is the episode where I hate Eames the most.He did not choose his family. He did choose to go to Tates. So did she. As someone with a nephew she should understand.
|
|
|
Post by alliehalliwell on Aug 27, 2011 10:46:59 GMT -5
Yeah I agree. I couldn't understand why she was so mad. A little upset that she almost shot Goren - that I understand, but not with the secrecy bit. I think that since she is a seasoned cop, she should get that he didn't have much of a choice. Either tell her and potentially blow his cover and get dragged into everything or he could keep his mouth shut, ensuring that if something goes wrong, it's only his arse on the line.
|
|
Leonore
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 145
|
Post by Leonore on Aug 27, 2011 17:09:55 GMT -5
This episode is all about (to me) what is just below the surface or what is just beyond the periphery. The set up: where we see Eames trying unsuccessfully to stay connected to Goren. Goren not taking the call because he can't lie to his partner so he avoids her.
The diner scene where we see the subtlety of D'Onofrio's acting as he hesitates (almost letting Eames in), turning to her and then pulling back brusquely, telling her he'll talk to her later and walking quickly away. Leaving Eames sadly staring after him, hurt at being shut out. So Good!
Then we have Stoat ( what a GREAT name! A stoat is a weasle!!!) and Melago. She too cared about her partner and wanted to help him and he took advantage (as admittedly Goren has done in the past with Eames!) of her concern. Melago "had her partner's back" to the extreme! She took the gun from the evidence locker, gave Stoat police information, turned back drugs to him, pulled over people at his request, ect.
I think Eames was so angry with Goren after her confrontation with Melago because Eames (the character) saw (maybe for the first time?) how far protecting your partner could go to the dark side. I believe she saw herself in Melago and it shook her. Just as Goren told Stoats "I'm nothing like you!" not wanting to see himself in Stoats' behavior and actions toward the job, the law, and his partner! To me this subtext is what is facinating in this episode. It's not just what we are seeing in the comparison of the partnerships; it's what Goren and Eames themselves are seeing in the comparision of the partnerships!
Goren (I believe) is dismayed and upset by what he sees of his own actions viewed through the lens that is Stoat. Eames is, on the other hand, furious! Sure she is angry with Goren, but (again-just what I see) she is much angrier with herself, after she has looked at herself in the Melago-mirror.
|
|
|
Post by Patcat on Aug 27, 2011 21:07:14 GMT -5
I think there's enough blame to go around here. Let's start with Ross, who should've been protecting his detectives and let Eames know what was going on. I suspect part of her anger was directed at Goren because she couldn't direct it against Ross. A lot of her anger may come from all the times she has had Bobby's back and he didn't tell her what was going on. I agree she should've understood that Bobby was undercover and that he couldn't tell her what was going on, but the situation when she had her gun on her partner was too close to what happened to her husband.
What I want to know is how Bobby and Alex got back on the same wavelength.
Patcat
|
|
|
Post by skittles4me on Aug 27, 2011 21:25:17 GMT -5
Wow! What a lot to think about! Skittles, I think Bobby told himself that he was protecting her; he really wasn't, I agree, but it probably made him feel better about what he was doing. He was lying to himself (paging Dr. Gyson). Purgatory is probably my favorite S7 episode. I love Dean Winters as Stoat, I love Bobby's quiet desperation, and I love Eames' eruption at the end. I think Bobby needed to hear that - a lot of his wounds were self-inflicted. Hey Kacesq! I like your thoughts about Bobby lying to himself- it does tie in to what Dr. G was telling him. I love Purgatory too. It was the episode that changed me from a casual viewer to an obsessed fan! I'm also glad Eames erupted at the end. MJ, I think that when she told him his wounds were self inflicted she meant the consequences of how he handled his bad luck, not the fact that he had some bad things happen in his life. And after all the crap she "put up with" from him (and the Tates thing), she deserved to be let in on his undercover gig. IMO alliehalliwell. Thanks for answering my question! This makes sense to me. I don't think Eames would reveal that she knew he was undercover, but if they are being watched.... Yeah I can understand that. Good explanation. Leonore, I never thought about Goren and Eames seeing themselves in Stoat and Milago (even though I could compare). However, Milago wasn't just being a loyal partner, she was angry with the NYPD for taking away her shield for (in her opinion) a small infraction. Part of her was just getting back at the system. I still can't wrap my mind around Bobby or Alex seeing themselves "going to the dark side". Patcat, I agree, Ross should have done something and when Alex pointed that gun at Bobby it was just too close to home. I think Bobby and Alex made up during Betrayed.
|
|
Leonore
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 145
|
Post by Leonore on Aug 28, 2011 21:40:03 GMT -5
Skittles, I didn't mean that either would go to the extremes that Stoat and Melago did! I do think that Goren, through the years, has put Eames in tough spots with his behavior and he does know that he isn't like Stoat because of who he fundamentally is inside. Eames, I think, can see her behavior and her support of Goren in Melago's actions and though she wouldn't break laws like Melago, she might understand the bitterness toward the NYPD. Melago even asks Eames about Goren at one point and Eames sharply telling Stoat to get his feet off her partner's desk.
How many times have Deakins and Ross and others told Eames that she's the senior partner and to keep Goren reigned in or keep an eye on him? What about the episode (can't remember the name right now...Sorry it is Smile from season 7!) where the fake Yale marathon whistleblower, Leslie warned Eames that Goren would destroy her career and stop any promotions? Goren asked Eames at the end of the episode if she worried about that and Eames admitted sadly that she used to and then said that now it was too late. That sad moment of Eames' resignation was hard for me to watch and Goren's look said it all!
Purgatory (in the old school Catholic sense) is a place of cleansing fire, a place of atonement and acknowledgment, but it is also a place of hope because it is temporary. A soul can come through to a better state of being. That is why I love this episode! This is LOCI writing working at it's best.
|
|
|
Post by maherjunkie on Aug 29, 2011 14:17:49 GMT -5
What exactly did he put her through? She made a choice, as I said before, about going along with Tates. He found out who murdered her husband. Does the little B***h ever think about that?
|
|
|
Post by skittles4me on Aug 29, 2011 17:08:59 GMT -5
mj- Sooooo, I'm starting to get the impression that you don't love Eames as much as I do! ;D You are right- she did make her own choices, but as Leonore pointed out, some sacrifices came with those choices (Captain Eames). Bobby doesn't seem to be aware of, or appreciate that. Leonore- thanks for explaining. I get it- S/M are a reflection (of sorts) of G/E. Not a possibility of what they could be. Maybe? LOL BTW, my house smells of freshly sharpened pencils and the wax of new crayons!
|
|
Leonore
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 145
|
Post by Leonore on Aug 29, 2011 19:06:41 GMT -5
BTW, my house smells of freshly sharpened pencils and the wax of new crayons! ;D Oh boy! I'm like Goren (the nose) in the school supply aisle. I love the smell of new paper, notebooks, markers, pencils and crayons. I like to touch the paper to see if it is good quality so my fountain pen ink won't bleed or feather. It happens every August and I usually end up buying something new for myself even though I haven't needed to buy school supplies for years! We also have a local group that collects school supplies for kids and I always shop for them...too much fun! MJ makes a good point about Eames making her own choices and (in my view) this is why Goren and Eames are partners and there's no shipping (sorry skittles!). In Wee Small Hours we find out that Eames requested a new partner, five years previously, and never told Goren about it. Goren also wasn't in the know when she announced she was going to be a surrogate for her sister. Eames was shocked by the appearance of Frank in Brother's Keeper. In Siren Call , Eames seems surprised about Goren's news about his mother being ill. There are many other examples. To me, Goren and Eames are partners with their own separate lives, who just don't share everything with each other. We have seen (and been told) that Goren "overthinks." I can believe on some level that he thought he was doing the right thing keeping Eames clear. Goren, we know, has had to be self-reliant his entire life, from necessity and habit and it has served him well for the most part. I have no problem seeing him revert to old patterns in a time of stress...totally within the character.
|
|
|
Post by Moonbeam on Aug 29, 2011 20:01:28 GMT -5
My biggest concern was with Eames...hard to fathom after everything, she couldn't figure it out. Really, she's smart. She didn't think something was up after Bobby dismissed her in frontof the diner? Totally out of character for Eames.
If I were her, I'd have B***hed slapped Ross. Once for thinking she couldn't be trusted enough, and second, for not understanding the GE partnership.
The episode always bothered me because the writers casually overlooked the dynamics of the Goren/Eames relationship.
|
|
|
Post by skittles4me on Aug 29, 2011 21:49:26 GMT -5
My biggest concern was with Eames...hard to fathom after everything, she couldn't figure it out. Really, she's smart. She didn't think something was up after Bobby dismissed her in frontof the diner? Totally out of character for Eames. He If I were her, I'd have B***hed slapped Ross. Once for thinking she couldn't be trusted enough, and second, for not understanding the GE partnership. The episode always bothered me because the writers casually overlooked the dynamics of the Goren/Eames relationship. LOL Moonbeam! I'd like to see that slap! ;D The overlooking of the dynamics of the G/E relationship bothered me too, but seeing them at odds is also what makes this such an emotionally charged episode. IMO Leonore: No worries! We each see what we see. Alex chose to stick with him all those years. (sad face at the end of Smile "It's too late") I think she made many choices based on "caring for her partner deeply". I don't blame her for not telling him. She probably thought he would never find out, and that telling would hurt him. She wanted to spare his feelings IMO. I think he was! In Undaunted Mettle, he asks "So did you tell him?" after she leaves Deakin's office, and says "I didn't think about that!" when she tells him that he will get a temporary partner. Bobby was shocked to see his brother outside the church too! Bobby revealed that he had a brother in Gemini so she knew about him. Alex was recovering from her abduction. He probably didn't want to share bad news during that time. (see how easy it is? I just wear these when I watch the show) There are many times that they reveal that they DO share. Bobby knew that Kevin Quinn was Joe's partner in Amends. He had her home address memorized in Lady's Man. Eames knew Bobby was in Germany during the '80s in Cuba Libre.Alex knows Bobby likes jazz in Icarus. He seemed to know Mr. Eames well in Last Street. Alex knew about Bobby's debts in Frame. In Blind Spot Alex knew that Gage was Bobby's mentor before and after his breakdown. In Endgame, Ross asks Alex if Bobby is getting any sleep! She clearly kept in touch with him during Purgatory before he went undercover. Back to Purgatory.... in a discussion elsewhere, it was suggested that Goren was protecting Eames from being labeled a "rat" as he was. I guess that catching one of their own doesn't make a cop very popular even if the dirty cop is guilty. Bobby wanted to spare Alex from finding dead vermin in her desk! Awwww .
|
|
dimarec
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 111
|
Post by dimarec on Aug 31, 2011 19:40:57 GMT -5
I just want to say that I love Bobby Goren in Purgatory. He struggles so hard between his feelings for Eames and what he has to do. I think this emotional struggle is unusual in a man (although it might be because I live in Latin America...). He cares deeply for Eames. He accepts her anger, probably because he understands. I love him in this episode. He is so vulnerable in it.
|
|
Leonore
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 145
|
Post by Leonore on Sept 10, 2011 19:13:44 GMT -5
I really liked the performance of Dean Winters as Mike Stoats. He was just so good being slimy and totally unrepentant about it! I guess that's why I just love him as the Allstate Mayhem character. He really has that Bad Boy vibe down with that wicked wink and chuckly, little laugh. I enjoy watching Mayhem at work!
|
|
|
Post by idget on Sept 10, 2011 20:51:08 GMT -5
Lenore, thank-you so much! I knew I knew that guy from somewhere and never could place it. I like those commericials too, espicially the one where he is jogging with the pink headband.
|
|
|
Post by charlesmcook on Nov 13, 2023 12:36:41 GMT -5
Can anyone advise what the song was in the strip club "Heavenly curves" ?
|
|