EOTW: ENDGAME

[Patcat]

ENDGAME

Will air 7pm and 11pm (EST) on February 24 on Oxygen. The 21st episode of Season Six. First aired May 14, 2007.

Written by Kate Rorick, Julie Martin, and Warren Leight. Directed by Jean de Segonzac.

Guest Actors:

Leslie Hendrix as M.E. Rodgers
Roy Scheider as Mark Ford Brady
Mark Linn-Baker as Wally Stevens
J. Smith-Cameron as Miss Hill
Tony Goldwyn as Frank Goren
Rita Moreno as Frances Goren
(All accept Mr. Scheider are returning guest actors.)

Synopsis: A serial killer about to be executed contacts Goren.

Ripped from the headlines: Possibly based on William Richard Bradford. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Richard_Bradford

Quotes:

Goren: “As serial killers go, this Mark Ford Brady is definitely within the hash marks.” Ross: “Right down to having three names.”

Brady (to Eames): “You’re so impatient. Eager. Like my crocuses.”

Brady: “Were the crocuses in bloom? The first flower of the springtime. Impatient. Sometimes they push up right through the snow.” Eames: “We dug ‘em up. Every one of them.”

Goren: “You’re afraid of death, aren’t you?” Brady: “I’ve seen a lot of death.” Goren: “I’ve seen a lot of death too. But for you it’s about control. That’s what it’s all about.”

Frances Goren (to nurse): “For God’s sake, I’m dying. What difference does it make what my blood pressure is?”

Frances Goren: “One death row visit is as good as another.”

Frances Goren: “Oh, Bobby, Bobby. It’s the prodigal son.”

Ross: “You don’t need this in your life right now.”

Goren: “Don’t tell me who I am and how I think.”

Ross: “He’s too emotionally invested in this.” Eames: “But I’m not.”

Brady: “You can do it. They’ll let you do it. You know you have it in you to do it.”

Frances Goren (to Bobby): “You look like you’re not taking care of yourself.”

Queries:

Thirty four pages of remarkably intelligent and civilized discussion, much of it about Frank Goren’s motives and Frances Goren’s relationship with Bobby. So, can we find more to talk about this episode? Let’s see.

Did LOCI “Jump the Shark” with this one?

Has Bobby always seen his mother as the victim in the relationship with her husband, the man he thought was his father? Is this one reason why he’s so shocked by the events in this story? Is he shocked to discover his mother betrayed her husband?

Is it possible William Goren wasn’t such a bad guy?

Goren has apparently been in touch with Wally Stevens. Is Goren the victim of no good deed goes unpunished? Is he still in contact with Wally?

Should Bobby be on this case? Should Eames? Come to that, what are NYPD detectives doing with a case involving a prisoner on Pennsylvania's death row?

Will, should, Bobby get credit for solving the many cases the discovery of Brady’s scrapbooks will solve?

Is Frank worried about his mother’s finances? Or his own?
What has Frank told Frances about Eames?
Was Brady and Frances Goren’s relationship initially consensual? Was Bobby’s conception the result of a rape?

Does Frances want Bobby to be happy? Or does she hate him because he reminds her of what Brady did to her?

How long has Brady followed Bobby’s career? How long has he suspected Bobby might be his biological son?

Does Frank suspect Brady is Bobby’s biological father?

Did Frank really take care of Bobby when they were kids?

Why doesn’t Bobby remember anything about “Uncle Mark”?

Who saved Bobby Goren? How did he learn to be a good man?

Is Frances Goren using her medical condition to manipulate Bobby?

Did Frances’ rejection set off Brady’s killings?

Why does Alex insist on Bobby remaining on the case?

Comments:

Ok, there are a lot of plot holes. No way Bobby Goren should be on this case (I have to agree with Captain Ross on this one). How did Brady get to make contact with Bobby? Isn’t it convenient that Wally Stevens is in prison with Brady? But for all of those problems, I found this an enthralling episode. In many ways, especially for a story about a vicious serial killer, it’s remarkably subtle and ambiguous. Frank and Frances Goren are acted and written in particularly subtle ways, so that it’s very difficult to know their motives and to know if they are acting for or against Bobby. Kudos to Tony Goldwyn and Rita Moreno for their great performances. And to the late, great Roy Scheider, who’s both charming and terrifying as Mark Ford Brady. Again we get to see how Kathryn Erbe can create so much from a few lines and scenes. And Mr. D’Onofrio is heartbreaking, especially in his scenes with Ms. Moreno.

An observation—I initially remembered Bobby as trying to bring up the subject of who his biological father was with his mother while she was dying, and thinking that was more than a bit cruel. I realized on a reviewing of that scene that it’s Frances Goren who brings up the subject during Bobby’s last visit to her. He tries to change the subject, but she continues to push it, and then blames him for bringing it up.

Submitted, as always, for your consideration and comments.

And this will be the last of our return to Alex and Bobby’s rides through Hades for a while. A slightly less personal and painful episode for next week.

Patcat

[kacesq]

Queries:

Did LOCI “Jump the Shark” with this one?

I don't think so, but then for me, CI never jumped the shark. I initially was very resistant to the personal arc of Seasons 6 and 7, but now, after repeated viewings and in connection with earlier seasons, I have a newfound appreciation for the arc Bobby's character took. (Although I sincerely hope that S10 shows the end of the arc is a happy ending.)

That being said, I think the entire story could've been told without bringing Bobby's paternity into doubt and that was a jump the shark moment for me. For a show that eschewed "soap", and as someone who actually enjoys soap, lol, the serial killer as potential dad was extremely soapy. I still think Mark and Frances could've had a relationship, I still think everything else in the story could stand, I just didn't see the need for that added twist.

Has Bobby always seen his mother as the victim in the relationship with her husband, the man he thought was his father? Is this one reason why he’s so shocked by the events in this story? Is he shocked to discover his mother betrayed her husband?

I think Bobby does see his mother as the victim, and I think that any "bad" aspects of her character, he ascribed to her illness, whether that was true or not. I do think that hearing his mother had this relationship shocked him and his convictions about who she was, and considering how fragile he already was, that was not good.

Is it possible William Goren wasn’t such a bad guy?

It depends. I think I recall someone saying Goren's backstory, as created by Balcer in the beginning, may have mentioned physical abuse. If William was the abuser? Then yeah, he's a bad guy. If not, I tend to fall in the camp of William not necessarily being a bad guy as much as a weak and selfish one, like his son Frank.

Goren has apparently been in touch with Wally Stevens. Is Goren the victim of no good deed goes unpunished? Is he still in contact with Wally?

I just watched Probability this a.m. Goren clearly empathized with Wally, and that's probably why he's still in touch; he always seemed to make a distinction between perps who commited crimes because of illness or victimizations, and those like Trudy Pomeranski who were just...evil/bad/selfish. I love that Goren is empathetic, but it is not always in his best interests...

Should Bobby be on this case? Should Eames? Come to that, what are NYPD detectives doing with a case involving a prisoner on Pennsylvania's death row?

I think it was ok for Bobby to be on the case because they didn't know until nearer the end of the Mark/Frances connection. But hey, this is CI, even if they did know, Bobby would've still been on the case, similar to Eames looking into her husband's murder. It's just one of those things I accept about CI, lol. I think the NYPD is involved because Brady offered up info on victims from NYC. That's the only jurisdictional hook I can come up with...

Will, should, Bobby get credit for solving the many cases the discovery of Brady’s scrapbooks will solve?

He should. Will he? Probably not. As I've gone on the CI seasonal journey, it does seem that Goren gets less and less credit for his skills and crimes solved.

Is Frank worried about his mother’s finances? Or his own?

Frank is only worried about himself, per usual.

What has Frank told Frances about Eames?

I'm sure Frank told Frances that Bobby was hanging around with a pretty blonde. Someone in one of the threads mentioned that s/he didn't think Frank could understand a platonic work relationship between G/E, so I'm sure he thinks they're a couple and that's what he told his mother.

Was Brady and Frances Goren’s relationship initially consensual? Was Bobby’s conception the result of a rape?

I think the relationship was initially consensual. As far as the rape and Bobby's conception, I'm not sure enough of hte timeline to venture a guess on that. Included in that is the fact that I never realized until I found this forum that the car accident was a cover story for rape.

Does Frances want Bobby to be happy? Or does she hate him because he reminds her of what Brady did to her?

I think Frances does want Bobby to be happy, I just think she's limited in how to express that and in how to help Bobby get there.

How long has Brady followed Bobby’s career? How long has he suspected Bobby might be his biological son?

I think Brady has followed Bobby's career throughout and I think he's always suspected.

Does Frank suspect Brady is Bobby’s biological father?

No, I really don't think so.

Did Frank really take care of Bobby when they were kids?

I think he tried to...

Why doesn’t Bobby remember anything about “Uncle Mark”?

I'm not quite sure. I'm not sure how often Uncle Mark came around after Bobby was born, and if Bobby was only 4 when Mark disappeared, that's pretty young...

Who saved Bobby Goren? How did he learn to be a good man?

Bobby saved Bobby. I can't think of any other adult we know about who could have or did. For me, one of my core convictions about the character of Bobby is that he has - even throughout seasons 6 and 7 - an inner reserve of strength and morality that carries him through and has helped him avoid "going the other way" as Declan might have said.

Is Frances Goren using her medical condition to manipulate Bobby?

Yep. I think she's the type who would've used anything she had at her disposal to manipulate him.

Did Frances’ rejection set off Brady’s killings?

I've often wondered that but I have no strong opinion one way or the other.

Why does Alex insist on Bobby remaining on the case?

Because Alex knows Bobby needs to stay on the case and see it to its conclusion.

Thanks, Patcat, for these insightful questions!

[Patcat]

Re. Bobby getting credit for his work--my hope is that his good work in the past has saved him--I'd like to imagine a conversation where Ross points out to the Brass that Goren and Eames have a great solve rate and that they solved high profile cases that made the NYPD look good and that helped get Bobby back from suspension. I also hope that it will pave the way back for Bobby and Alex for the last season.

Patcat

[Moonbeam]

Did LOCI “Jump the Shark” with this one?
Perhaps they got a running start, but the performances saved it. Remove the paternity issue, the story is still good. One has to admit it’s hard to accept Goren’s father as a serial rapist/killer. But this is television drama. I’ve read stranger things in Jeffery Deaver novels.

Has Bobby always seen his mother as the victim in the relationship with her husband, the man he thought was his father?
Yes.
Is this one reason why he’s so shocked by the events in this story?
Yes.
Is he shocked to discover his mother betrayed her husband?
Probably.

Is it possible William Goren wasn’t such a bad guy?
He was probably a good guy, just not a good father. I’m sure he liked his boys, but the lure of women, booze, and the horses was too strong in the end.

Goren has apparently been in touch with Wally Stevens. Is Goren the victim of no good deed goes unpunished?
Ha!

Is he still in contact with Wally?
I doubt it.

Should Bobby be on this case?
I can’t imagine Goren ignoring a request from Wally Stevens. He would have been too intrigued not to. It was the classic setup. After discovering his mother’s involvement, he should have stepped aside, but we know that wouldn’t happen.

Should Eames?
Yes. Someone had to watch his back.

Come to that, what are NYPD detectives doing with a case involving a prisoner on Pennsylvania's death row?
I assumed Brady was arrested, tried and convicted in Pennsylvania. And I assumed many of the still missing victims were in New York.

Will, should, Bobby get credit for solving the many cases the discovery of Brady’s scrapbooks will solve?
Yes, but quietly given the circumstances.

Is Frank worried about his mother’s finances? Or his own?
Frank’s only concern is himself.

What has Frank told Frances about Eames?
Lord only knows. With embellishment, he told her how he met Bobby’s "partner."

Was Brady and Frances Goren’s relationship initially consensual?
Yes

Was Bobby’s conception the result of a rape?
If I remember, Frances said she and Brady “celebrated” Kennedy’s election. That’s when I thought Bobby was conceived.

Does Frances want Bobby to be happy?
She has a strange way of showing it but I think so.

Or does she hate him because he reminds her of what Brady did to her?
To hate him would remind her of the consequences of her own actions.

How long has Brady followed Bobby’s career?
I’m going out on a limb and say from the time he met Wally Stevens. Its plausible Wally mentioned Goren on occasion to Brady. Listening to Stevens, Brady started thinking, put two and two together, had his attorney do some research, and set "the deal" in motion.

How long has he suspected Bobby might be his biological son?
From early on, but I'm not sure he cared.

Does Frank suspect Brady is Bobby’s biological father?
Frank’s only concern is himself.

Did Frank really take care of Bobby when they were kids?
I’m sure he’s convinced he did.

Why doesn’t Bobby remember anything about “Uncle Mark”?
Bobby would have been fairly young, no older than four. It’s hard to remember an occasional visitor at that age. Or Brady scared the bejeebers out of Bobby and he blocked out the memory.

Who saved Bobby Goren? How did he learn to be a good man?
His friend Lewis, the uncle who took Bobby to magic shows, his own determination.

Is Frances Goren using her medical condition to manipulate Bobby?
Yes.

Did Frances’ rejection set off Brady’s killings?
I doubt it.

Why does Alex insist on Bobby remaining on the case?
She knows he has to see things through.

[kacesq]

His friend Lewis,

I've seen a few references to Lewis but for the life of me, I can't remember him. What episode was he in, what's his relationship to Goren?

Thanks!

[NikkiGreen]

Lewis is a friend of Goren's.

He's appeared twice. The first time was during Season 1 in "The Pardoner's Tale"; the second time was during the following season in "Cherry Red".

Discussions pertaining to cars.

[skittles4me]

Oh I love Lewis! I wish he made some more appearances! He was crazy about Eames after Alex showed off how much she knows about car engines when she and Bobby visited Lewis' Body Shop.
I also like to think that he was a good steady friend in Bobby's life. Maybe Bobby hung out at his house and was even close to Lewis' family.

[idget]

You know I never realized that Brady was in a prison in Pennsylvania, since Wally killed all his victims in NYC how did he end up in Pennsylvania?

[Patcat]

There's a quick reference that Wally got a transfer to a prison closer to his mother. I suspect Bobby had a hand in this.

[idget]

Thanks Patcat it's been awhile since I've seen this episode and forgot about that.

[angua]

Feb 17, 2011 22:16:54 GMT -5 Patcat said:

There's a quick reference that Wally got a transfer to a prison closer to his mother. I suspect Bobby had a hand in this.

They're about to shoot industrial-grade soap into the viens of Bobby Goren's backstory, but heaven forbid they should flop that minute little detail.

[skittles4me]

Quotes:
Brady (to Eames): “You’re so impatient. Eager. Like my crocuses.” Ewww. I can almost feel Alex’s skin crawling when Brady looks at her and smiles.


Frances Goren: “Oh, Bobby, Bobby. It’s the prodigal son.” So unfair and sad. My heart just breaks for Bobby.

Goren: “Don’t tell me who I am and how I think.” Ross once said Falacci was not a “people person”, but he needs to learn some sensitivity himself!

Ross: “He’s too emotionally invested in this.” Eames: “But I’m not.” Way to have Bobby’s back, Alex!

Brady: “You can do it. They’ll let you do it. You know you have it in you to do it.” I hope Bobby REALLY knows that isn’t true!

Frances Goren (to Bobby): “You look like you’re not taking care of yourself.” Bobby- stressed out much here? It did tell us that Francis noticed. I think, in her way, she does care about Bobby.

Did LOCI “Jump the Shark” with this one? Yes. If I just watched LOCI for the smart cases, smarter detectives, police procedural it would have been waaaaayyyy too much. Since I like the personal drama and show-within-the-show, I was okay with it; but even I think it was a bit of a stretch.

Has Bobby always seen his mother as the victim in the relationship with her husband, the man he thought was his father? Is this one reason why he’s so shocked by the events in this story? Is he shocked to discover his mother betrayed her husband? I think most people want to believe the best about their parents. Even as adults it is hard to learn about a skeleton in a parent’s closet.

Is it possible William Goren wasn’t such a bad guy? He just sounds like a selfish man who couldn’t, or wouldn’t honor his responsibilities. I think most of us know a William Brady, unfortunately.

Goren has apparently been in touch with Wally Stevens. Is Goren the victim of no good deed goes unpunished? Is he still in contact with Wally? MFB would have found another way to contact Goren if Wally hadn’t been there. I didn’t get the feeling that Wally really knew what was going on. I hope Bobby is still in touch with Wally. I like the idea of the two of them corresponding. I also agree with Kacesq's response to this question.

Should Bobby be on this case? Should Eames? Come to that, what are NYPD detectives doing with a case involving a prisoner on Pennsylvania's death row? No, but that is one of the TV universe things we have to overlook to make the story possible. I don’t like to watch LOCI with my husband because he is always saying “That couldn’t REALLY happen” or “Yeah, right. They just HAPPENED to ….” We just have to remove our reality glasses sometimes!

Will, should, Bobby get credit for solving the many cases the discovery of Brady’s scrapbooks will solve? He should get credit, as should Eames! She works hard too and is good at her job. She deserves just as much credit...they are a team!

Is Frank worried about his mother’s finances? Or his own? Of course Frank is only worried about himself. He’s hoping to gain something from his mom’s death.

What has Frank told Frances about Eames? That Bobby is in love with someone. Frank Goren is a shipper! LOL ;D Yes, I know he is a junkie, but he was clean when he saw Bobby and met Eames. They may be estranged now, but Frank can still detect his little brother’s soft spots. We know this because Frank used that knowledge when he sought Bobby’s help in “Untethered”.

Was Brady and Frances Goren’s relationship initially consensual? Yes Was Bobby’s conception the result of a rape? No, didn’t that happen when 7 yr. old Frank babysat 4 yr. old Bobby for a weekend? Grrrrrr. Francis didn’t have schizophrenia at that point. Can’t blame her being a rotten mom on mental illness here! How could she leave those little boys alone like that?

Who saved Bobby Goren? How did he learn to be a good man? ? As Moonbeam noted, he talks about an uncle in “Vanishing Act”. Don’t know enough about his family in the Midwest. Maybe he had some good friends (Lewis) whose parents let Bobby hang around a lot. Maybe some special teachers? Bobby was an adult before he met Declan Gage. Dec wasn’t an example of how to be a great human being, but he cleary loved Bobby as a son and that would have been good for Bobby’s self-esteem.

Did Frances’ rejection set off Brady’s killings? No, I just think the man was predisposed toward evil and must have grown up in a home that was a “laboratory” for producing a serial killer.

Why does Alex insist on Bobby remaining on the case? ‘cuz if it went to Logan and Wheeler the episode wouldn’t have been as good? LOL

Comments:

Ok, there are a lot of plot holes. No way Bobby Goren should be on this case (I have to agree with Captain Ross on this one). How did Brady get to make contact with Bobby? Isn’t it convenient that Wally Stevens is in prison with Brady? But for all of those problems, I found this an enthralling episode. In many ways, especially for a story about a vicious serial killer, it’s remarkably subtle and ambiguous. Frank and Frances Goren are acted and written in particularly subtle ways, so that it’s very difficult to know their motives and to know if they are acting for or against Bobby. Kudos to Tony Goldwyn and Rita Moreno for their great performances. And to the late, great Roy Scheider, who’s both charming and terrifying as Mark Ford Brady. Again we get to see how Kathryn Erbe can create so much from a few lines and scenes. And Mr. D’Onofrio is heartbreaking, especially in his scenes with Ms. Moreno.

Well said, Patcat!

An observation—I initially remembered Bobby as trying to bring up the subject of who his biological father was with his mother while she was dying, and thinking that was more than a bit cruel. I realized on a reviewing of that scene that it’s Frances Goren who brings up the subject during Bobby’s last visit to her. He tries to change the subject, but she continues to push it, and then blames him for bringing it up.
Bobby needed closure, and frankly, I think Francis owed him that.

I love the scene when Eames doesn’t want Bobby to visit MFB and Bobby says “I’m your partner. You’re going to have to trust me.” Alex steps aside and Bobby steps on the elevator and the doors close. It is a quiet exchange with deep meaning. She DOES trust him and with the doors closing he is “closing” her out because he feels he has to confront MFB alone.

[Patcat]

A reminder that this episode is on tonight. While I'm posting a new EOTW today, I don't mean to cut off discussion of ENDGAME if anyone wants to continue.

Patcat

[Leonore]

Caught the last part of this episode this morning! Endgame is what I call my "car wreck episode"...I just can't seem to look away once I see it on TV! I see some new little thing in the performances each time I watch it. The acting in this episode still has me awestruck even after all these years!

I can't look away as Bobby, after seeing Brady, visits Frances for the last time. When Frances turns away from him and we see Bobby cover his face with his hands, it's almost too much for me to watch. She doesn't see him do this because she is looking at the photo of the young Frank and Bobby. What is Bobby thinking at that point when he covers his face?

Can he not bear to see the truth? Is he bracing himself for talking to his mother and her last "confession"? After his "meltdown" with Brady does he wonder about his self-control if he brings it up with his mother? Is he just so weary and emotionally drained that he's unsure exactly how he wants to proceed or if he wants to proceed at all?

The push and pull of the scene between Moreno and D'Onofrio is stunning in it's poignancy. Balancing telling the truth with the need for hearing the truth, the dance these two actors engage in is amazing! All the emotions...anger, shame, embarrassment, denial, sadness, understanding, sorrow, resignation and, yes, love are there between these two.

D'Onofrio is heartbreaking, alone in the darkened room by himself, at the end. He doesn't need to say a word...it is all there on his face for us to read. Just quality work!

[idget]

I agree Lenore the acting in this episode is superb. I watched it myself not to long ago and the scene where Bobby finally realizes what MFB is up to and who he might really be is so exquisite.