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Post by diablodeblanco on Mar 21, 2008 9:14:48 GMT -5
Couple of things stuck in my mind, swiss cheese that it is. The first one is when Goren and Bishop are in the woods looking at the area where the killer waited and drew his little map. Bishop walked over and very quickly gave the site a cursory look and left. Goren quietly knelt down and studied the drawing in the dirt. Then looked around himself and I think he was imagining what he would have done that night of the killing, putting himself in the killer's body. The second scene is when they are searching the money room. Bishop quickly enters the bathroom and again a cursory look. Goren quietly assays the room and then finds the window tool. He took his time and was thorough. It paid off. The difference in the investigative style was glaring. Age and experience......or just someone being a better detective. Made me appreciate the team work Goren had with Eames. Your remarks above and Cassie's got me to thinking about Goren as a teacher. Wouldn't he be a wonderful teacher at the Police Academy? They would learn the importance of studying the details of each case and how the smallest detail can be the key to unlocking the truth. I think he would enjoy it too. He does love to impart his knowledge to others and he is patient, kind, caring and compassionate - qualities that I find honorable in any profession, but especially teaching. But he would probably miss solving real cases. Too bad he couldn't do both. Maybe he could be cloned. Oh God...what a thought. That could lead to another whole thread! ;D The ideal situation for him would be to teach parttime and then Major Case the rest of the time. Cut back on assigned cases to allow for the teaching assignment.
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Post by DonnaJo on Mar 21, 2008 11:03:30 GMT -5
The second scene is when they are searching the money room. Bishop quickly enters the bathroom and again a cursory look. Goren quietly assays the room and then finds the window tool. He took his time and was thorough. It paid off. The difference in the investigative style was glaring. Age and experience......or just someone being a better detective. Made me appreciate the team work Goren had with Eames. All true. Yet, didn't Bishop have to remind Goren (after he was so very intrigued by the window tool & how well it fit) that this couple had killed 9 people, so don't be so impressed with them? Sometimes Goren's ability to relate to the perps, especially if they are skilled at their profession, can be a negative of sorts.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Mar 21, 2008 11:14:24 GMT -5
The second scene is when they are searching the money room. Bishop quickly enters the bathroom and again a cursory look. Goren quietly assays the room and then finds the window tool. He took his time and was thorough. It paid off. The difference in the investigative style was glaring. Age and experience......or just someone being a better detective. Made me appreciate the team work Goren had with Eames. All true. Yet, didn't Bishop have to remind Goren (after he was so very intrigued by the window tool & how well it fit) that this couple had killed 9 people, so don't be so impressed with them? Sometimes Goren's ability to relate to the perps, especially if they are skilled at their profession, can be a negative of sorts. You're right. He was so impressed and focused on the tool/toolmaker that he blanked for a moment to the severity of the crime. I've noticed that he has the ability to detach. This is apparent when he is looking at a victim. If the victim is dead he has almost a clinical attitude about them. Almost like I can't do anything for you except find out who did this.
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susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
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Post by susan1212 on Mar 21, 2008 11:57:41 GMT -5
All true. Yet, didn't Bishop have to remind Goren (after he was so very intrigued by the window tool & how well it fit) that this couple had killed 9 people, so don't be so impressed with them? Sometimes Goren's ability to relate to the perps, especially if they are skilled at their profession, can be a negative of sorts. You're right. He was so impressed and focused on the tool/toolmaker that he blanked for a moment to the severity of the crime. I've noticed that he has the ability to detach. This is apparent when he is looking at a victim. If the victim is dead he has almost a clinical attitude about them. Almost like I can't do anything for you except find out who did this. Yes, he would have to have the ability to detach in order to do his job. He is a man who admires brilliance and is curious about human behavior. So when something he has been thinking about and speculating about becomes an evidential fact, he relishes the moment. But I believe he always has the victim(s) on his mind when pursuing a case. And I think Bishop was a little annoyed that Goren was enjoying being right again, so she drew the sympathy card to snap him out of it. I think it took her a while to realize it wasn't about competition between them, it was about complementary skills working together to solve a case. This is what he has with Eames, and Bishop cannot be faulted for not having what G/E have. As stated, he is an "acquired taste". But in F.P.S., which was I think her last case with Goren, Bishop got it. She was actually smiling when Goren went into his "annoying-the-perp-into-confession" mode. She seemed thankful to have had the opportunity to work with him at the end of the episode when she told Goren to go to the hospital and she would do the paperwork. She also seemed a little wistful at what G/E have, maybe hopeful that someday she would have that simpatico with her own partner.
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Post by Patcat on Mar 21, 2008 13:23:45 GMT -5
That's a good point about Bishop's initial competitiveness with Goren. She's a young, ambitious woman in a man's profession, and she's probably had to compete and act pretty aggressively to get to a point where she'd be considered for Major Case. Goren may be one of the first officers she's run into who hasn't treated her badly.
I don't think Goren is callous around a body. He's doing his job, using the body as a way to solve the crime. He rarely takes the lead with a victim's family, but he's always sensitive and careful with them.
I was watching MIS-LABELED last night, and I was struck by the scene where Goren and Eames interview the VP of the pharmaceutical company who's gay. As Goren realizes that this is a man of rare honesty and integrity, he becomes very respectful. It helps that Terry O'Quinn, who plays the VP, is a terrific actor and that he and D'Onofrio are giving the scene a great energy.
Patcat
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on Mar 21, 2008 13:58:26 GMT -5
I've caught a couple of the Goren/Bishop episodes running lately, and the thought occured to me that there's a rather nice parallel between these and the Logan/Falacci episodes.
It's that mentor thing, with the experienced cop showing a less experienced but eager cop how things go -- especially in Major Case. It seems to take a whole new (dare I say) skill set from being a Detective in Homocide, or Narcotics, or Vice... a bigger picture viewpoint and an ability to finesse information out of high powered people. It takes -- for the most part -- a more delicate touch than your run of the mill investigation.
It's interesting to watch each of the "temps" during their six-odd episodes.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Mar 21, 2008 14:12:16 GMT -5
Perhaps I didn't explain well....I didn't mean Goren was callous when examining a body but he has a way of detaching from the emotional. As soon as he gleans every little snippet of information he allows himself to feel again....feel for the victim and feel for the family and friends who lost a loved one. You can see him switch gears.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Mar 21, 2008 14:16:37 GMT -5
Terry O'Quinn has enormous stage presence. He has a natural way about him no matter what role he is cast in. I don't think he intentionally hogs a scene but his presence in the scene makes you pay attention to him. Your eyes just go to him.
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Post by DonnaJo on Mar 21, 2008 17:00:38 GMT -5
Perhaps I didn't explain well....I didn't mean Goren was callous when examining a body but he has a way of detaching from the emotional. As soon as he gleans every little snippet of information he allows himself to feel again....feel for the victim and feel for the family and friends who lost a loved one. You can see him switch gears. I didn't take your comments to mean Goren was callous. I also didn't mean that Goren didn't care about the victims when I mentioned Bishop reprimanding him. My point was that she's more on the ball than people give her credit for. I can see the comparison of Bishop/Falacci in terms of mentoring. Although I did like Bishop, whereas I'm really not crazy about Falacci. Best scene of true simpatico between Goren & Bishop is the scene in "A Murderer Among Us" when Goren is swinging the metal pipe inches away at the husband who killed the Jewish men, Bishop is right there, holding back the daughter & others so her partner can do his thing. Great team work!
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Post by Summerfield on Mar 21, 2008 17:24:20 GMT -5
I really don't like Falacci. She's too young and too "in your face" for my taste. With Bishop, we got someone who was willing and able to keep up with Goren. After a while, she at least acted like she knew where Goren was going/coming from. Falacci doesn't appear to have those qualities. If she is supposed to represent the 'younger Logan,' then I'll pass.
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Post by Patcat on Sept 10, 2010 8:52:19 GMT -5
Bump for EOTW
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