4:08 - "Silver Lining" 2004-11-14

[trisha]

What was up with Goren in the beginning? Dropping the files and walking into the door? I hope this isn't going where I think it's going.

He looked good, though. I guess I can live with the longer hair -- just as long as it's short on the sides. He certainly looks better clean shaven.

BTW, are there any other "Rescue Me" fans out there? ;D

[Patcat]

Dropping the files and walking into the door could have been accidents in filming and everyone just went with it. Or it's just a sign of Goren's pre-occupation with the case. I hope no one thinks it's a sign of mental collapse, because I've dropped stuff and walked into stuff since I was a kid.

A good solid episode. Nice procedural stuff that gave some idea of how much work goes into solving a case.

Nice little move where Bobby wakes up Eames with the coffee.

Patcat

[Enthralled]

Yes - what WAS up with the dropping files and bumping into the door scene? It didn't seem to go anywhere - and I hope, like Trisha, this is not a set up for somewhere we just don't want to go...

I also thought Eames comment about Goren during interogation - "He's just like my partner - just wants to be left alone to do his work..." was a bit cryptic. Does Eames seem a bit edgier this year? I'm glad she is more involved and assertive - has had an interesting effect on their relationship.

I'm going to think about the ending...what did he ask Goren to do? Seems like Goren had a grudging respect for his skill as a burgler -- yet thankfully not venturing in questionable professional territory this week.

[darmok]

I was also wondering what he asked Goren to do. They didn't show us; maybe we'll find out in a different episode - not normal LOCI MO, but they're definitely taking this season somewhere. But it was another solid episode - for a solid season.

I'll have to watch my tape; I didn't catch what the suspect said to Goren at the beginning of the interrogation. They seemed to be showing parallels between the suspect and Goren - Goren's comment that he would do the same thing if he were a burglar, Eames' comment to the female suspect, etc.

[Observer2]

It seemed clear to me that the favor the guy asked Goren had to do with making sure that his mother would get custody of his child – her comment, “We’ll be here” seemed to confirm that.

The bit with dropping the files and bumping into the door frame... that was pretty unusual – at least to us. Eames and Deakins seemed amused, but not startled. So while it could be the signal of something new and strange, I think it’s more likely that it’s just Goren being intensely focused on, and perhaps a bit excited about, what was suddenly turning into a very interesting case. He had all that new information to go through, patterns to find, and the challenge of applying it to what was happening in New York... it just looked like he couldn’t wait to get back to work on it.

Oh, and Trisha, I’m glad you like his clean shaven look. Because apparently, for Goren, anything worth doing is worth doing obsessively. I now imagine an electric shaver in his desk drawer... and possibly in his coat pocket (or maybe tucked into that binder somewhere). Because he had to have shaved either just before heading into that stakeout, or else at some point during it. The one time we knew for sure he had stayed up all night... I did get a mental image of someone poking fun at us just a little bit... ...but I’m sure it’s just that once Goren decided to shave for work he got a bit obsessive about it.

[Rose]

Please don't think I'm going shipper here or trying to turn CI into a soap opera but a couple of things have me wondering if Goren is starting to pine after starting a family.

He was interested in Nelda, he said "don't count me out yet" to Nicole when she said they weren't meant to be parents, Goren's loneliness was made apparent in Want and now Goren is being compared to a career-obsessed thief who is thinking a little less now of his career and wants to settle down. Goren overheard his partner saying he wants to be left alone to work.

I think these things are significant. Goren has identified with almost every criminal this season...it's nothing new to the series but it's more pronounced lately. I think that more than ever we are supposed to think "What did we learn about Goren via the perp this week?" So far, we're learning that Goren is in even more danger of going off his nut, is having trouble letting go of his mother, is obsessed with his own career,....and is lonely. Maybe instead of ending the seris with Goren going crazy, they'll end it with Goren retiring from the force, getting married, and starting a family. It would be a happier ending, even if some of us would be jealous.

[Sirenna]

This episode was so much fun to watch! My VCR chewed my tape so my comments are based on one viewing. But even so, I was interested enough to sit through the whole thing, ignoring all distractions - couldn't do that for Eosophorous.

I liked that Goren dropped his binder and walked backwards into the door. E&D reactions gave the scene it's affectionate humour. Season one Goren did similar things but then his distractedness came across as bumbling and his collegues didn't always take him seriously. Now, three years later, Eames especially, but even now Deakins know Goren sufficiently to realise Goren's just gripped by the case, absent-minded professor style.

The binder, and Goren's bulk and physicality, for instance could be a great way to lull perps into thinking they're dealing with a bumbling detective, rather than the quick one that he really is. The writers and Vincent need to bring his props into play more consistently in order to give us more insight into his character. Then when he really does zig-zag, like with Nelda, we are able to recognize that as the anomaly it is. I agree with Patcat: not every file-dropping situation means Goren is going, going gone.

I also liked the contrast between a master-criminal and a master detective and the respect generated between them. Unlike Goren's empathy with past perps season four, I found it completely believable that a detective and a criminal might recognize in each other a common core. NOTE: that doesn't mean I think they are best friends or even romantically attached now! ;D

They are the same in that they are not just good at what they do but brilliant. This separates, even isolates them from most people. There's a difference between Goren and Eames, as good as she is, just as there was between Mozart and Salieri.

Goren and the thief share some values. Goren, although this is sometimes a bit muddy, might empathise with his perps but he never succumbs to what they are. He never condoned what John did, in Want. He still arrested Nelda in Semi. The thief was honourable too. He went to jail rather than bribe a cop. He stole but was never violent. (He told his wife she should have let him go to jail rather than commit a murder.)

They also have the same attitude to family. They want the life but not the trappings. They both know that staying up all night, skirting the dark side of criminality, their drive to complete their respective callings are not conducive to family life. Would anyone put up with that crap long-term?

The women's attitudes in this episode illustrate the levels of understanding they have about the men. Eames, the wife and the mother each saw it differently. The wife was under the most dangerous illusion: romance. She really thought that giving him a wife and a baby would change who he was. Even at the end she couldn't understand why, even though she gave him everything, even gave up her life to create a family with him, he still couldn't change his nature.

Eames' comment about "her partner wanting to be left alone to catch his bad guys" wasn't a personal criticism of Goren. It was the plain truth. She sees him very frankly and clearly with no romantic or other haze to cloud her vision of him. The kind of guy that Goren is may not be what she is looking for in a mate but her professional relationship with Goren is strengthened because of her clear vision of him.

The thief's mother not only sees her son for who he is. She has stopped hoping he could be something else. But even though he's bitterly disappointed her his whole life long, she will still be there for his son, and for him when he gets out of prison. This was a huge favour to the burglar even though it took very little from Goren to grant it.

The title neatly summed up how dangerous it is to be blindly optimistic. Yes, every cloud has a silver lining. The thief could become a stalwart citizen. Goren could become a homebody but isn't it just as likely that every silver lining has a cloud?

[Patcat]

Sirenna;

I think you've hit the nail on the head with all of your comments.

I'd just like to address the subject of Goren's "bumbling". I agree that this is something Goren uses to lull criminals into a false sense of security. We've seen him deliberately scatter papers and even pour coffee on files to make it appear as if he's a halfwit. Then he closes in on the criminal. These are some of my favorite LOCI moments.

I suspect this is Goren using one of his own traits to his advantage. He is occasionally a bit physically and socially awkward, especially when he is deeply involved in a case. He's aware of it, and has decided to use it to his advantage, much in the same way that Eames uses her small size to her advantage.

It's another of those acting choices D'Onofrio has made that are just right for Goren's character.

Patcat

[Techguy]

I liked this episode too, a very solid example of a procedural episode where you think you already know whodunnit but end up a bit surprised at the end but not totally. I also questioned how a master thief with no record of violence could have committed murder. He seemed to get off more on outsmarting the rich preppie types, so murder would really have been most atypical for his MO. The final revelation about who really dunnit made sense, although the clue to its credibility didn't show up until the wife spilled the beans about her physical ability to commit the murder during the final interrogation.

Did anyone else notice at the outset how Det. Goren seemed, how can I put this, a little non-plussed because the detective who had arrived at the crime scene before MCS had all the bases covered? Goren kept asking the other detective questions about what was found and where, did he check this or that, and the other detective had an answer. Maybe I'm seeing too much into this scene, but Goren looked like he wanted or needed to uncover something other than what the first detective at the scene already discovered, and was not successful. I still can't quite figure out his response to this development, although his obsession with solving cases like this seems to be the most likely scenario.

I was a bit startled also at Goren dropping the folders of paperwork and bumping into the door, but I didn't interpret it as anything with future negative consequences. It could be as was already said, a blooper segment during shooting, which based on the reactions of Eames and Deakins quite likely. Or else it was just a humorous statement about Goren's quirkiness and obsessive behavior about handling a case. Could the shaving and clumsiness be an attempt at CI taking Goren into some Monk-like territory? Whatever the reason, I am even more curious about where the rest of Season 4 takes the Goren character.

I also wondered what the thief meant at the end when he asked Goren for a favor. Since the scene segued into a goodbye with his mother, I'm guessing he wanted the chance to talk to her before being taken away, with the implied development that she will take care of the thief's child after the wife gives birth, rather than he/she being given up for adoption or ending up in foster care.

[trisha]

Yes, Techguy, I noticed Goren's reaction to the other detective It falls in line with what Eames said about Goren wanting nothing but to catch bad guys, and what Sirenna and Observer noted about Goren being excited.

He seemed to really want the case when it was just a strangled woman on a park bench, so when it was turning into such a big case, and one with such an intriguing perp, he got excited -- so much so that he was paying more attention to relaying to the captain what he had found than on where he was going and what he was doing. Since Eames seemed more amused than disturbed by it, that does seem to give us less cause for concern.

Since it seems that I am the only one who watches Rescue Me, I'll let you in on my smile. The woman who played Sheila, also plays character named Sheila on Rescue Me.

[Leonore]

I liked this episode. The consternation on Goren's face at the scene when all of his questions were answered by the other officer (especially the gin and tonic smell-o-meter!!) was priceless. Dropping files and bumping into things just showed me his mind was so excited and wrapped up in the crime\criminal he couldn't waste a thought for what was in his physical space. I was also happy to see the maps and colored pins back and when Goren woke Eames up with the aroma of the coffee and she asked him if he ever slept and he said he was reading a book about the psychology of burglars.

So many nice moments to savor in this episode...very satisfying (Can you tell I'm going to dinner now?)!!!

[aaronwt]

Has anyone noticed that Gorens character has changed this season? I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the disease his mother has that is supposed to be hereditary. It's been brought up several times but i don't remeber what it was.
Lately his mannerisms have been different, he dropped those files in this episode. All this started this season.
In this episode when they were on the stakeout he made a comment to Eames that said something like, Too many things to do and not enough time. I'm just wondering if this is foreshawdowing the future of his chararcter. I hope not because he is the reason my girlfriend and I watch this show. It just seems like th elast few shows have been giving slight clues that he is starting to have problems with the disease that afflicts his mother.

[trisha]

Welcome to the board, arronwt

I was a tiny bit worried that the changes in Goren might be leading toward him having a psychotic episode, but I'm trusting the writers not to do something so unrealistic. Goren's mother has schizophrenia, and statistically speaking, it is highly unlikely that a man Goren's age would begin having symptoms of the illness. Typically, men with schizophrenia begin having symptoms in their teens. For Goren to have been having episodes for 20 years, and somehow not only successfully coping on his own, but hiding it as well, is even more unreal than developing symptoms at age 43.

I think the changes are supposed to be along the lines of what Rene Balcer referred to as a "more engaged" Goren. I don't know about more engaged, but it seems like we are finally getting some of that fruit cake we were promised two seasons ago

[darmok]

I don't think Goren's character has changed as much as it's gone back to its season 1 roots. He's always dropped things - although it's almost always to throw the perp. I like Patcat's theory about this being one of his own traits that he uses. As far as not sleeping, there was a similar comment in Person of Interest, and D'Onofrio said the stubble was to give the impression that Goren was up all night.

I think it's interesting that some people thought he was too quirky at first. The last 2 seasons, fans have complained that he lost his quirkiness. This season the quirky Goren is back and everyone's worried about it. Boy, we fans are hard to please!

[darmok]

This was basically an episode about professionals. The first cop was a professional - one with the potential to be as good as Goren. Goren might have been a little disappointed that he couldn't figure out anything new, but he's not used to that from most cops. I think it's a nice touch that they show that cops other than "our" 2 can figure stuff out too.

Then there were the comparisons between Wesley, the professional thief, and Goren, the professional detective. People have mentioned Goren not sleeping on the stake-out. Sheila told Wesley, "Now I know why you never come to bed."

In the interrogation room Wesley told Goren, "I like that you're organized." Goren replied, "I guess we're alike that way." There was mutual respect.

It was said about Wesley that "You can't fight your nature." I guess Goren can't fight his either.