Post by domenicaflor on May 1, 2005 21:41:48 GMT -5
I'll post more when I have time (last paper due tomorrow!), but my initial impressions are that this episode is very solid. More energy from all of the characters, especially in the traditional deposition "aria". I loved Carver in front of the grand jury indicting the website owner for manslaughter. Eames had some great dialogue, and even got laughs from Goren.
Darryl Hammond's characterization of Timmons was perfectly business-sleaze (his facial expressions were perfect for this role - kudos to the casting department for this one). The actor cast as the subordinate Hubert was perfect for the role as well - facial expression, physical insecurity, vocal inflection. Excellent work on everyone's part.
Goren mentioned Bell's Palsy in relation to Deakins, who certainly looked in various scenes like his face was partially paralyzed. In some scenes his other eye looked almost completely closed as well. I hope that Jamey Sheridan is not suffering from that. and if so that he recovers quickly.
I went to the web and found a site on Bell's Palsy:
Bells Palsy is horrible. I had it during tax season a couple of years ago. When you say words starting with, say, a p, your nose shears over to the other side of your face, it's just freaky. I couldn't control my blinking either, and the doctor blithely told me I could "patch my eye." Yeah, great. Only it happens to be the only eye I have any vision in. Luckily it lasted a relatively short time.
*wee voice* I will edit for actual L&O CI content when the show airs here......50 minutes to go! It sounds as if it's a good one.
Post by NicoleMarie on May 1, 2005 22:04:47 GMT -5
I don't know how to put this or if I'm even going to be coherent but this show brought me to tears! I am in tears as I write this! My brother commited suicide and suicide is not a joke! I have been unhappy with the shows this season and this show was the final straw! CI just lost a viewer! I know I'm not making any sense but I don't care. I'm not angry at anyone here so please don't be angry with me. for the conversations here.I am resigning myself from these boards and other CI boards.
I liked this episode. As Dom mentioned, there was good stuff from Deakins and, especially, Carver. Carver even anticipated (mostly) what they wanted him to do to set up the final scene.
I thought Hubert was a more sympathetic character than Timmons; I had to remind myself that he committed murder. Timmons was a sleaze and drove Edie to commit suicide, but he didn't premeditate murder as Hubert did. Still, I felt for him at the end.
I didn't think that LOCI handled the subject inappropriately, but I am not sensitive to the subject. I will have to watch it again to form an opinion on that matter.
The episode used suicide as a plot device, but I don't think it in anyway minimized it or joked about it--indeed, I felt that Carver's appearance before the Grand Jury made the point that we have as much responsibility to help those who are emotionally bleeding as those who are physically bleeding. But I also have no personal experience of suicide.
I thought it a solid episode as well, and enjoyed the use of all the main actors. And I hope Jamey Sheridan isn't suffering from any illness.
NicoleMarie, I’m sorry for your distress, but I have to say that I don’t understand it. I also lost a brother to suicide, 7 years ago; but I did not find anything offensive about this episode. Quite the opposite. I would like to understand what it was about this episode that upset you, though I know it might be too difficult to talk about.
As for the Bell's Palsy, I hope that's what it is -- other possibilities I can think of don't resolve as quickly or as easily -- and I wish Mr. Sheridan a speedy recovery.
Last Edit: May 1, 2005 23:16:17 GMT -5 by Observer2
NicoleMarie, I'm very sorry for your loss. I also have personal experience with the suicide of a family member, however I didn't find the show treated the issue as a joke at all. Goren, Eames & Carver were horrified by the website and the manner in which these suicides/murder took place. And the guy who ran the website also didn't treat the issue as a joke either. He believed people have a right to commit suicide if they wish, and believed he had a constitutional right to present the information he did on the website. I didn't find that any of the characters took the issue of suicide as a joke. LOCI didn't make up the "suicide website" thing. Sadly, they do exist and have been reported on in the mainstream media.
Hubert (like Delbert?) was indeed a warmer character, you could see/feel he was a good guy, cared, ect and just got caught up in fear: fear of loosing his job & then loosing all he had put out his blood sweat and tears for for decades. That is understandable fear. Too bad he will take a large rap for this murder, as murder it was.
The sleezy business guy (kudos Hammond) will barely get a slap on the wrist & will now even pass a sleepless night over this -maybe an arguement & expensive present to a wife he doesn't care about, but what the hell.
I did LOVE IT; but I thought it was nice solid episode; that DID take suicide seriously - they had Contemp for the guy running the website - even got a Nasty Snark from Alex, they pushed it in the grand jury and got the website shut down.
So like observer, if you want to share the item that must have touched on your particular situation (not suicide in general) I would be interested to learn about your story, if it is too painful, I understand & hope the feeling passes soon.
This episode took the viewer into some very murky moral waters. The murderer was in many ways the most sympathetic character in the story. Even the suicidal young people (they weren't teenagers, it seemed to me, but young adults) failed to realize that the train they used as the instrument of their deaths often carried dangerous gas (and I do not mean to rub salt into the wounds of those who have experienced the effects of suicide).
While I'm very nearly an absolutist when it comes to the First Amendment, I don't find the website owner to be a sympathetic character. I draw a line between someone who assists a pain ridden terminally ill person in ending a life and a voyeur (which is what he seemed to me) who helps otherwise healthy people who likely would be helped by treatment.
It would have helped to have known more about the motivations of the people in the car. It seems one of them had a history of depression, and another facing the prospect of Huntingon Disease (a gruesome way to leave this world).
I like it when LOCI offers us stories with moral quandries and doesn't offer easy ways out. The easy way in this story would have been to make the Darrell Hammond character the murderer. The course the writers took was much more complex.
I enjoyed this episode, and agree with Patcat, Observer and others that it didn't take suicide lightly at all. If I'd felt the show treated suicide as a joke, I'd have found that offensive, but I just didn't see it that way. NicoleMarie, I'm very sorry the episode upset you, and if you'd like to expand on your earlier post, I'd be very interested to hear your perspective. Of course, I understand if it's not something you wish to discuss.
I am sorry NicoleMarie for the loss of your brother. I feel for you honey. When it comes to suicide, it’s a roller coaster ride, not only dealing with the death, but also trying to forgive and understand why they did it.
I struggle with the fact that Hubert committed this murder to get revenge on Timmons for driving Edie to commit suicide. That makes no sense to me. If he (Hubert) was struggling with this woman’s death, why commit a murder?? The young man that he put into that car, was just as much a victim of Timmon's, as Edie and he was. Why didnt Hubert go after the real villian here, which was Timmons??
I would have liked to have seen the man who had the suicide website, be put on trial. Send him over to L&O, Trial by Jury. They could finish up on that case.
I hope Jamey Sheridan is feeling better
Sending hugs to Nicole
“It’s like you got yesterday, today and tomorrow, all in the same room. There’s no telling, what can happen”.... Billy, "I’m Not There"
I think Hubert felt "justified" in sending Carmine sp? to his death for two reasons .....
1) C lied about Edie so that her family would get nothing from the slimy company/CEO
2) C was turning into a company lackey - he was turning into the kind of monster Hubert saw his boss as being and so .... C had lost his standing as a human in Hubert's eyes & was therefore an appropriate pawn to use to get that law suit back into play
I liked this episode but the motivation of the dish-washy murderer didn't fly.
Also I have some familiarity with large brokerage firms and I can tell you if that sexual harassment stuff went on, the woman would be a mult-millionaire and as happy as a clam because she hire a lawyer and sue the SNL president guy.
I didn't really get all the angst among the characters in this one. They don't fit the type A, highly competitive, super self confident personalities normally foundin that industry.
Other than that, I liked the plot device of luring someone who thinks they're going to a party, to a train wreck instead. It's an interesting metaphor if a bit convoluted for a murderer to do. (Hitting someone over the head is soooo much simpler but that's LO:ci for you!
Post by janetcatbird on May 2, 2005 16:37:56 GMT -5
Of all the episodes to miss...rough night last night and I just didn't feel up to watching. But USA reruns, so that will be helpful. Sorry i can't contribute any Sartre parallels, I might be able to once I see the thing.
NicoleMarie, at least stick around for the chat threads or something. I know we haven't talked very much, but if you want to PM me and blow off steam, you go right ahead. I don't know anyone who has committed suicide, but please know that I'm thinking about you--that goes to Observer as well.
"If it's dangerous to talk to yourself it's probably even dicier to listen." --Jim Hightower