4:20 - "No Exit" 2005-05-01

[Patcat]

I've seen Christopher Meloni do several of the "More You Know" PSAs for NBC.

And Mariska Hargarity is very involved in counseling for victims.

But I get the sense that all of the actors on LOCI are pretty private. And that D'Onofrio, in particular, is very uncomfortable with doing things outside of his work.

Patcat

[domenicaflor]

Thanks to all for your responses. Just to clarify - when I said flashing PSA message what I meant was those 15 second black-screens with lettering that usually say something to the effect of:

"If you or someone you know is....... then you can find help by calling this hotline number...... #" etc.

I should not have confused the issue with the Public Service Announcement spots that various NBC show stars do, like Meloni, Hargitay, Noah Wyle, and others. I think they call them "The More You Know..." spots.

From what I can tell, the L&O franchise does not do them. I believe, from what I see, that Dick Wolf and the writers feel that the disclaimer which comes before many episodes stating that the episodes are fictional is sufficient explanation for the public.

My take on LOCI specifically is that the show tackles very serious subject matter and does not hesitate to leave issues unresolved. Frequently there is no closure - there is no quote-unquote "happy ending" as in some detective shows of the past. Thus the audience is sometimes left feeling very uneasy and often less than "satisfied". This is the type of dialectic created by many schools of filmaking that reject the Hollywood notion of narrative closure. In montage specifically one juxtaposes opposing elements to create new ideas, often ones of political and social ideology. In short, they leave us hanging to examine our own belief systems. It's one of the reasons I am drawn to the show, since the audience is rarely spoon-fed what to believe.

The subject of whether a fiction televison show or film is responsible to provide their viewers with information about venues for support and outreach is a very interesting one. I can fully understand a documentary or non-fiction show providing the information, but I don't feel it required of fiction shows. However, given the fact that the media can have a clear emotional effect on viewers (cf. our discussion on the emotional impacts of LOCI on the general thread - television and healing), others may feel very differently than I do on this issue.

On the subject of the suicide "hookup" website, I think the matter was handled effectively by the show and that they most certainly did not condone suicide or the creation of such websites. As we have noted before, in the 45 or so minutes of actual episode programming the writers have to pack a ton of background into the show to create their scenarios, and in this case they had to posit the other suicides scenarios as best they could while revealing Carmine's death as a setup. Eames' comment to the webmaster that he could go take his seat in hell was pointed indeed. I was reminded of an episode of Judging Amy where there was a case of a webmaster who created a site where anorexics and bulimics gathered specifically to affirm their choice of lifestyle as a personal choice and not as a disease. (Yes, there exist websites for this purpose, as I discovered when I searched around.) At first the argument also centered around first amendment rights, but then became a murder trial when one of the anorexic women who was a site member died from self-starvation. In this show, the website was not condoned either, and an additional point of view was brought up - the issue of Amy as a mother talking to her teenage daughter about body image and dieting.

The bigger issue, for me, in both cases, is what is driving these individuals to such extreme measures in the first place. Where are the support systems in place to help these folks before they have to seek out such websites or create them? If a television show gets enough people to examine their ideas and ask the key questions, I feel it is as or more beneficial as the showing of a 15 second informational spot.

D.

[Cassie]

domenicaflor said:

The bigger issue, for me, in both cases, is what is driving these individuals to such extreme measures in the first place. Where are the support systems in place to help these folks

Perfection……The need to be perfect, who’s standards are they using as a guideline? Someone in their life, or by the worlds standards?. That I don’t know. Both are diseases, like cancer, that take a long time to erode the body and spirit. The difference is if a person has cancer, we as a society can accept their fate a whole lot easier. Then if the person is suicidal or anorexic, we feel that they are making a stupid choice and it is somehow interrupting and effecting our lives. We have less tolerance towards them, which only adds to their pain. I don’t think we do it intentionally, but I think it happens. I think that suicide and anorexia is a disease that starts out in the spirit and destroys the body. Where cancer, starts out in the body, and in the end takes the spirit.

[NicoleMarie]

Hi Metella

Thanks for the kind words! I am certainly relieved to know I was not annoying the hell out of people (I think)with my posts about this show.

I've thought about it more and still didn't see anyone trying to get justice for Edie. I like what I read on another board: Why wasn't boos guy charged with facillitation? He only gets obstruction and perjury? And I still think Goren and Eames were rather making fun of Hubert when he was getting ready to kill himself. GRRRR!!! There should be a follow up to this. Maybe they will use my suggestions? That would be a cold day in hell! hehehehe

If I'm repeating myself or harping tell me to hush. ;D

[NicoleMarie]

Hi Techguy, I wasn't slighted by your post, I hope you didn't feel slighted by mine either. When I read yours, it made me stop to think how I might appear to others reading my posts so I thank you for your post!

As I told Metella, I was certain I was annoying the hell out of people but am I glad that doesn't seem to be the case. I was afraid I may have offended some people. I'm glad to be asked to still post. I think I am at a raw place and that show intensified it so I have to thank eveyone for letting me harp. And I promise not to keep doing it!

And I've just realized I didn't wish you well with your situation. (Slaps self upside the head!) I'm glad to read that you are doing well. I'm sending you lots of well wishes for the future!

[NicoleMarie]

KMC,
what if someone saw this show and it gave someone a final push? That's the first thing that came to mind after reading your post.

Responses like this is what made me not want to post my reaction to this show in the first place...I don't want people to think I am just venting here or writing letters just to vent aimlessly. I had a reason for my posts. Though only a few see it the way I do, (elsewhere) that is fine. I'm so glad at the reponses I recieved not critisizing me. I won't critizise anyone who sees the show different.

I know I had a strong reaction to this show, for obvious reasons. I have no ill will for the show, I'm not going to stalk or harass them. I'm not writing a letter a day. There is no communication with a tv screen. And while I doubt my letter would get a response, I don't feel writing to them is an different than someone writing saying there is too much violence or sex on tv or getting mad because two girls kissed or whatever.

I do they should have done some PSA's for this show. It would've been very wise.

[Techguy]

NicoleMarie, thank you for acknowledging me as well. I appreciate your kind words and wish to encourage you to continue to post your feelings and opinions, since that is what a fan board is for. I'm relieved that we cleared up any misunderstandings in our passing posts.

[janetcatbird]

Yes, Techguy, sorry Ihaven't dropped in sooner but best of luck with your therapy/treatment. I'm glad you've made the progress you have.

NicoleMarie, welcome back! I got your PM, good to see you here again.

[Techguy]

Thanks, Janetcatbird. I posted more about my personal experience with Bell's palsy on the Jamey Sheridan Bell's Palsy thread so I won't repeat it here.

[NicoleMarie]

Thanks Techguy and janetcatbird!

[Patcat]

From an interview with Darrell Hammond:

Despite the stressful schedule, Mr. Hammond has been able to find time to stretch out, appearing in films such as Scary Movie 3 and Agent Cody Banks, and television shows such as Law & Order: Special Victims Unit and Law & Order: Criminal Intent. He is set to appear in an upcoming episode of the new FX comedy, Starved, and just finished shooting a guest role on Vegas.
"I played a nutcase on 'SVU,'" says Mr. Hammond. "And I played a slimeball on 'Criminal Intent.' I play another slimeball on 'Vegas,' so I guess I must be pretty good at playing slimeballs. I'll have to look into that. Vincent D'Onofrio is a for-real actor, I was very intimidated by him. He and Katherine Erbe were very welcoming and they helped me along, but they are trained stage actors. I put on fake noses and wear wigs every week."

www.pacpub.com/site/printerFriendly.cfm?brd=1091&dept_id=343157&newsid=15051313


Patcat

[maherjunkie]

THis ep was not one of my favorites. I thought it dull and lacking energy, and I didn't like the way Carver took a "Nanny state" approach to the website. I did like it when he said "You let me worry about that , Mr.Hubert", with that faux relaxing tone.

That man could play the devil and the angel on your shoulder without missing a beat.

[ragincajun]

Really like this episode, love the aria at the end, how Goren tells the guy who says I feel trapped, and Goren says now you know how Edi felt. Also loved the snark when Eames told the web site guy he could go do his little dance in hell. But she wasn't there when he made the comment, but guess Carver told G/E his comment when he was asked for his chat logs. Hope the boss spent some time in jail for purgery and obstruction.

[ragincajun]

Just rewatched this on USA rerun, When Eames tells the guy he could do his little dance in Hell, Goren is looking at something in the background, then holds it right up to his eye like he is looking through it, anyone can tell what it is? Love how acts in a scene even when he isnt the main focus of the scene. Also been reading the Suicide debate, I think the main thing about the website is he didn't offer alternatives for people going to his webpage. Not saying that people commiting suicide are taking the cowards way out, but some people are suffering from depression, that could be helped with therapy or medication, and by not putting that info on his website he is giving people a final exit that could be helped other ways. Being a person who suffers from depression, before my treatment, there were times, I thought there was no way out and did think of suicide, but thank God, I got help. But if internet was around in those days, and I stumbled on such a website, and such a group of people who knows what could have happened.

[DonnaJo]

What keen observation, ragin!

It's sort of a toy, my kids used to have one. It was also popular with young male adults. I don't remember what it's called. A black plastic frame/case that contains all of these tiny metal bars that are all bunched together. When you press something against the face of these metal pieces, it makes an impression of the item. Goren holds it up to his face & presses it against his face. He's funny.

My favorite part of No Exit is when Goren screams at Hubert to look at him, and then tells him gently "Be a good person, Hubert, make things right." That, to me, sums up what Goren is all about. Making things right. And he has no tolerance for those who refuse to take responsibility and right the wrongs they see in their lives. This character flaw brings out the worst in him, even to the point of cruelty. There are too many examples to mention.

Thank you for sharing your own experience about how clinical depression can make certain problems seem unsurmountable and trigger thoughts of suicide in some people. It's so wonderful that you, or someone you knew, realized that you needed help & sought it.

I don't know if it's been addressed in the thread before, but in this day & age do couples in love really commit suicide in order to be together forever? The threat from Eugenia's parents, that they wouldn't pay for her college if she dated Nicholas. IDK, suicide isn't a realistic response.She could have taken out student loans or taken a break from college & worked. It's mentioned that Nicholas had a history of a prior attempt. Can a young woman who doesn't suffer from depression be so easily influenced by a boyfriend to join a suicide club?