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Post by caseyswife on Apr 20, 2006 10:17:20 GMT -5
I have two relatives over in Iraq. I love them dearly and understand completely their commitment to this country. After 9/11 I would have picked up a rifle and fought the good fight. But, IMHO, Iraq was never about fighting the good fight - it was about Dubya finishing what his daddy started. And our soldiers are paying the price.
Techguy>> Brilliant quote from Maher. Wish I could afford HBO just for his show.
caseyswife
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Apr 20, 2006 17:55:40 GMT -5
Geeze what's wrong with everyone! Have you forgotten 9/11 or what??? I'm sorry if this sounds nasty but the earth is not a peaceful place & it will never be a peaceful place as long as humans inhabit it.
What we should have done is picked up that jack a** Palestinian 'Khan' who's building atomic bombs for all his terrorist buddies.
As for Saddam, he did need to go & people wanted something to be done about it & weather or not he had WMD isn't relevant to me he was still a bad guy & now him & his family have gone bye bye.
I don't support BUSH but I *do* support the WAR especially in today's society.
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Post by Techguy on Apr 20, 2006 18:25:56 GMT -5
I don't support BUSH but I *do* support the WAR especially in today's society. Ah...I guess that explains the disappearance of your former signature All right W.! Four more years! I wondered what happened there, now I know.
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Apr 20, 2006 18:35:55 GMT -5
My support of him has been dwindling for some time gas prices & the state of the economy are the main reasons. At the time if the election, I thought him to be the lesser of 2 evils, I've had bad experiences with Democrats in office.
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Post by trisha on Apr 20, 2006 19:52:48 GMT -5
No one has forgotten 9-11. We just KNOW FOR SURE that Saddam had no connection to it whatsoever. And "evidence" to support that notion was completely fabricated by the Bush administration. The Downing Street papers are pretty good proof of this, as well as the fact that further investigations into the recon info used to support the invasion prove it was all BULLSHIT.
And, yes, Iraq is better off without Saddam in power, BUT the whole "bringers of freedom" tag-line only came about when no WMD's could be found and they needed to keep support for the war while they systematically reordered the Iraqi government in order to control the OIL.
But if that's not enough to convince you, think of it this way: how many American's would have supported spending over $250 billion and thousands of American lives in order to establish a democracy for another country? And if that was the true reason we have stayed, why haven't we invaded Sudan, Nigeria, Rwanda?
Besides, is that our right? To invade other nations and force them to live the way we think they should? No. If it's anyone's business to step in and stop the leaders of an out of control and evil regime, it's that of the UN. And as leading members of the UN, the US is in an especially embarrassing position regarding UN laws and polices that the US was instrumental in writing, and that have been constantly and flagrantly disregarded by Bush and his administration.
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deb
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Post by deb on Apr 20, 2006 21:34:15 GMT -5
kawaiidragonfoe821,
Hate to say this, but for the first time since I was 18 (1980) I did'nt vote in the last presidential election because I felt that I was damned if I chose one and damned if I chose the other... I guess I've always been a middle liner instead of hard right or hard left. Actually, I guess you could call me wishy washy because I can usually see both sides of the argument, to a point. My problem with both parties in the last election is that I felt they were both either too far right or too far left...
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Post by caseyswife on Apr 21, 2006 0:52:53 GMT -5
As much as I hate to say it, deb is right. The Dems aren't stepping up to the plate and bashing the Reps over these issues like they should. Bush and the men of his ilk should have been shown the door by now. I keep hoping someone will have the guts to start speaking the truth - no matter what party they are from.
Being from Tennessee, I've heard a lot about our senator, Bill Frist, being the leader among Rep. candidates for 2008. Let me just say this - if the American people are ignorant enough to elect that schmo, I am moving to Canada and NEVER looking back.
caseyswife
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deb
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Post by deb on Apr 21, 2006 3:07:24 GMT -5
caseyswife, I live in Tennessee, too, and I agree wholeheartedly with you about Frist!!!
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Apr 21, 2006 7:32:41 GMT -5
For once I wish we could have an honest politician in office. I'm starting to think that a woman should run (no not Hillary Clinton LOL), at least a woman wouldn't be driven by an insane quest to prove to the world how mighty we are.
I still think Saddam needed to go, but when he was gone we should have pulled out of Iraq & let them settle how their country will be run. But we'd be damned if we do & damned if we don't there too because we'd get yelled at for leaving Iraqis exposed & vulnerable if we left but we get slammed if we stay while they try to sort out their issues. There was speculation that Saddam was giving money to Al Queda, that enough for me, he's been threatening the US for years anyway. As for the UN, IMHO they need to grow some fangs.
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Post by caseyswife on Apr 21, 2006 11:18:19 GMT -5
caseyswife, I live in Tennessee, too, and I agree wholeheartedly with you about Frist!!! Nice to know there are others in this state who feel that way!! ;D If you don't mind my asking, where do you live in TN?? (You can PM the answer if you like!) caseyswife
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Post by LOCIfan on Apr 21, 2006 11:45:52 GMT -5
Geeze what's wrong with everyone! Have you forgotten 9/11 or what??? I'm sorry if this sounds nasty but the earth is not a peaceful place & it will never be a peaceful place as long as humans inhabit it.
What we should have done is picked up that jack a** Palestinian 'Khan' who's building atomic bombs for all his terrorist buddies.
As for Saddam, he did need to go & people wanted something to be done about it & weather or not he had WMD isn't relevant to me he was still a bad guy & now him & his family have gone bye bye.
I don't support BUSH but I *do* support the WAR especially in today's society. As someone who was in New York on 9/11 and who lost several friends in the attack, no, I have certainly not forgotten it. Whether or not Saddam had WMDs may not be relevant to you, but it was relevant to many of those in Congress who authorized a war based on them. And it may be very relevant to the troops and their families, whose lives are being risked and sacrificed in service of a lie. It certainly is relevant to me.
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Post by LOCIfan on Apr 21, 2006 12:47:48 GMT -5
There was speculation that Saddam was giving money to Al Queda, that enough for me I find this kind of scary, kawaiidragonfoe. Speculation (which in this case was Bush Administration propoganda and lies) is not the same as the truth. And when that "speculation" is the government lying to their citizens, how can that be "enough"? Governments lie with impunity to their citizens in totalitarian regimes. It's not supposed to happen in republican democracies. Doesn't THAT, at least, bother you?
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Apr 21, 2006 20:55:54 GMT -5
Yes it does bother me, being someone that was raised with honesty & honor, but if it got Saddam gone, becides its the [glow=red,2,300]government[/glow] I can't do much about their lying anyway.
They've been lying for years (area 51 is proof of that) & it is nothing new so the bothering it once did with me has humbed over the years.
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Post by LOCIfan on Apr 22, 2006 10:28:59 GMT -5
Yes, kawaiidragonfoe, Saddam is gone. Saddam is gone along with 2,000 U.S. troops and 30,000 Iraqi civilians. Saddam had no WMDs and no connection to bin Laden or al Quaeda. Yes, he was a brutal dictator, but a secular one whose governing philosophy was entirely at odds with Islamic fundamentalism. And now Iraq is sliding rapidly into civil war. It has become a magnet and haven for Islamic terrorists. Bush has no exit strategy, and no strategy for quelling a civil war in Iraq. But he did manage to secure Iraq's oil supply. And yet gas prices are at historical highs.
And, speaking of the homefront... We are faced with an administration that does not tolerate dissent, elicits no expert advice, and deceitfully pursues agendas anathema to the U.S. Constitution and to the rights and safety of citizens. The U.S. Department of Justice produces justifications for torture of detainees held indefinitely without charges or access to attorneys. Warrantless searches and seizures are carried out with impunity against U.S. citizens. Congress and the judiciary acquiesce to the executive branch's disregard for statutory law, and wars of aggression are embarked upon on the basis of lies and false accusations. And just last month, Halliburton was awarded a $350 million contract to build detention camps in the United States. Bush says "you are with me or against me." Rumsfeld and Cheney already speak of "fifth columnists" and enemies of the regime -- throwbacks to the terminology employed by Stalin.
Who, in all of this, has been liberated? Are Americans safer today from terrorists than we were before the U.S. invasion of Iraq? And, really, who are the "terrorists"?
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Post by caseyswife on Apr 22, 2006 10:44:41 GMT -5
Great post, LOCIfan. And, no, I certainly don't feel any safer. In fact, I feel that this administration has made us an even bigger target.
caseyswife
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