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Post by Sirenna on Oct 29, 2005 12:38:23 GMT -5
I didn't see Olivia as "spending the rest of her life trying to bring justice in other people’s life in order to erase the great injustice she was responsible for."
She never brought to pimps to account for what they did to the girls. She took the girls away from their life by buying them and then she hid them from the pimps by creating new identities for them. That last bit might be speculative because I never taped the episode but it doesn't seem possible that she'd buy them and then their lives of prostitution would all be over. If they stayed in the community they'd be dragged back or tempting to go back willingly.
What she did for "her girls" as she kept referring to them was a parallel to what she did in her own life: hiding and secretive
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Post by NicoleMarie on Oct 29, 2005 13:05:43 GMT -5
Nice post Sirenna!
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Post by joanie on Oct 30, 2005 11:27:10 GMT -5
No one is bothered by the fact that since the beginning of the season two episodes shared similar topics with episodes from season 1? Yes, I am also bothered by this. The CI writers seem to like villains with strong religious manifestations. For example they had the killer Priest .... killer Nun ... killer parishioner (pharmacist) who gave blood money to his church ....killer choir boy ... killer muslim (white kid?) ... killer anti-abortionist ... etc Goren’s “the truth shall set you free” speech at the end always makes me cringe because it brings back memory of my mother who used to tell me: Do as I say; not as I do. How hypocritical of Goren to ask of others what he can’t apply for himself. I think if Olivia can be labelled a coward for becoming a nun in order to run from her past hideous actions; spending the rest of her life trying to bring justice in other people’s life in order to erase the great injustice she was responsible for…what can we say about a man who becomes a MCS profiler, specialising specifically in solving psychological crimes, bringing justice relentlessly instead of living his life…or addressing his own problems? For me, Goren telling people that the truth is the only road to salvation can be compared to someone who thinks it’s normal that the mute talked; but is stunned that the deaf didn’t hear him. Mimi your comments about Goren really made me 'think'. I'm not sure Goren is hiding from his past as much as he is hiding from his possible future. By 'future' I mean, leaving open the option of love, marriage and kids. J.
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 30, 2005 13:49:09 GMT -5
Joanie, is it that you're bothered by the fact that two of the episodes this season are (arguably) similar to episodes from the first season, or you're bothered by the fact that CI deals with bad guys with religious convictions? Or maybe both? Also, I think I got all the episode references -- The Faithful, Acts of Contrition, Malignant, Happy Family (is that the killer choir boy you were talking about?), and The Third Horseman -- but I can't place the "killer muslim" episode. Can you refresh my memory? To that list, I'd also add Shandeh, The Saint and Magnificat. Killers motivated in whole or in part by ideology, especially when that ideology involves spiritual issues, can be psychologically complex and very interesting. So I don't have a problem with it... Also, out of nearly 100 episodes, 8 or so dealing with villains with a religious bent doesn't strike me as overkill -- so to speak.
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Post by Cassie on Oct 30, 2005 17:08:26 GMT -5
-- but I can't place the "killer muslim" episode. Can you refresh my memory? I think she might be referring to Phantom with Ryder Strong
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Post by joanie on Oct 30, 2005 17:11:08 GMT -5
I think I got all the episode references -- The Faithful, Acts of Contrition, Malignant, Happy Family (is that the killer choir boy you were talking about?), and The Third Horseman -- but I can't place the "killer muslim" episode. Can you refresh my memory? To that list, I'd also add Shandeh, The Saint and Magnificat. Wow - Your Good. I'm still working on L&O CI:101. I don't know the episode title of the killer muslim - it is the one with the Arabic writing over the dead girls body. Locifan once you gave the number of 8 out of 100 episodes dealing with religious themes that doesn't sound like overkill to me either. Joanie
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 30, 2005 17:24:12 GMT -5
Oh, right Joanie. I think that episode was called THE PILGRIM. You jogged my memory. Cassie, I don't think PHANTOM had to do with religious themes. Wasn't that the one about the fake United Nations guy and his social climber girlfriend?
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Post by Cassie on Oct 30, 2005 17:25:44 GMT -5
Yeah your right Locifan......Sorry, it began with the letter "P" though
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 30, 2005 17:28:33 GMT -5
Oh, and p.s. the 8 out of 100 was just approximate. I skimmed an episode list to recall which ones dealt with religion. And CI is just about to come up on its 100th episode. According to the list I was looking at, IN THE WEE SMALL HOURS counts as the 96th & 97th episode. Hard to believe!
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Post by NicoleMarie on Oct 30, 2005 18:13:28 GMT -5
I'm not sure Goren is hiding from his past as much as he is hiding from his possible future. By 'future' I mean, leaving open the option of love, marriage and kids. J. You mean his "future" to be something you want- the love, marriage, kids angle. (Crap! That didn't come out right- I meant what you think his future should be.) Still not coming out right! Anyway, what I'm getting at is some people don't want that in their lives and are content with their work, and their work fulfills their lives. Goren does not strike me as emotionally damaged or lonely or in need of a change. I'm sure he has his issues but, they do not appear to control his life or limit him. We haven't been shown what Goren wants for his future- and I hope they never do! All I want is for him not to be killed off CI!
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Post by Cassie on Oct 30, 2005 18:43:41 GMT -5
I hear what your saying NicoleMaire. Just like in our own personal lives, we think that if our friends don't have a signifcant other in their lives. They aren't happy. We might feel the need to fix them up with someone. Like one person has said to me, "just because I am alone, dosen't mean I am lonely" Same thing could go for Goren and Eames too. I wouldn't mine if LOCI did a show in flashbacks on how Eames lost her husband. Maybe that could be a Cold Case file. Can you tell there is no LOCI tonight
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Post by NicoleMarie on Oct 30, 2005 18:53:01 GMT -5
Yes Cassie! I've been married six years and have to restrain myself from slapping people who ask me why I don't have kids yet as if I'm commiting some sort of crime!
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 30, 2005 21:55:04 GMT -5
You mean his "future" to be something you want- the love, marriage, kids angle. (Crap! That didn't come out right- I meant what you think his future should be.) Still not coming out right! Anyway, what I'm getting at is some people don't want that in their lives and are content with their work, and their work fulfills their lives. Goren does not strike me as emotionally damaged or lonely or in need of a change. I'm sure he has his issues but, they do not appear to control his life or limit him. We haven't been shown what Goren wants for his future- and I hope they never do! All I want is for him not to be killed off CI! I see your point too, NicoleMarie, and agree with your take. Holy cow, the world may just be coming to an end!!! ;D The only way to know whether or not Goren's hiding is if we had a clear picture of the entirety of his life, which we don't. We see only his work life and each of us is left to fill in the rest. Goren mentions old girlfriends fairly regularly on the show. Who's to say he doesn't have one now? In fact, who's to say one or more of those old girlfriends were women he dated during a year ago or six months ago... Based on what we know, Eames is also nothing more than work -- except for the fact that she was a surrogate for her sister. Whether or not Goren and Eames are happy with their lives is up for grabs. Goren may not have the kind of life society considers "normal" because he's not married and has no kids (that we know of), but that doesn't necessarily mean he's hiding or unhappy.
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Post by lisianthus on Nov 1, 2005 17:39:00 GMT -5
Did it drive anyone else nuts that *everyone* refered to the former prostitutes as 'girls'? Not once did I catch anyone saying 'women', 'ladies', or anything other then 'girls'. Ack!
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Post by janetcatbird on Nov 1, 2005 18:11:33 GMT -5
Lisianthus, I guess I noticed in the back of my mind, but I was too absorbed in the episode for it to register. Besides, weren't the prostitutes adolescents? They certainly looked like young teenagers--and if that's the case I can't really blame the detectives/nuns for viewing them as victimized children. With adult women, that language would certainly be condescending and patronizing/matronizing (whichever the case may be in a convent).
Maybe it's just the stage of my life, but "girl" does not really offend me. (I'm sure part of it is my age--only 20--and legal codes aside I certainly don't feel like an adult.) I refer to myself and friends as girls without batting an eye, the girls' end of the dorm, etc. If a guy were to say to me something along the lines of "The girls' bathroom is down the hall to the right," that wouldn't bother me. "Oh, girls are too squeamish or emotional to handle such-and-such", however, would hack me off.
I guess it's just different triggers for different people--I actually yelled at the TV screen during the SVU episode "Painless" because Munch kept pacing in front of the sign language interpreter--even when she was signing! ARGH!!
--Catbird
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