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Post by trisha on Mar 29, 2006 11:21:50 GMT -5
Am I just getting the mind of a conspiracy theorist, or does anyone else think that all this hub-bub about illegals has got to do with the desire of Homeland Security to document every person inside the US with RealID?
Don't know what RealID is? It will be your new national identification card and main source of ID starting in May, 2008. Google it if you don't believe me. The card will for sure issue you a citizen, or foreign national, identification number. It will contain a digital photo of you and have all the same information as your drivers license (all known addresses, criminal record, ect,) plus there will most likely be some sort of biometric verification. No word yet on what that will be, some say fingerprints, some say it should even be a retinal scan. These are ELECTED POLITICIANS, mind you, not future theorizing scientists, or wacky conspiracy bloggers.
The card will certainly be scannable like a credit card, and will probably be like the "pay pass" cards that you just pass by a scanner. Your RealID will be absolutely necessary to gain access to passenger flights inside the US, and may be adopted as the standard for all mass and public transportation such as trains, subways, buses, boats ... you get the idea.
If everyone needs a RealID in order to gain access to public transportation and who knows what else -- the bill is frighteningly vague, then who's going to do the low end jobs that are mainly held by illegals? You? Me? Bill Frist? I think not.
Like it or not, having a class of poor illegals is actually good for our economy, which is why Regan granted them amnesty in the 80's. A big business loving republican party isn't interested in giving up the cheapest labor source available, either. Are they?
Then what is all the hub-bub about? The floor is open, please let me know what you all think.
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Post by Metella on Mar 29, 2006 13:15:22 GMT -5
My only hub bub on the issue of illegals is that they get "benefits" I am adamantly opposed to them being covered by any government funded programs at all. I am fine with them doing work and collecting what for their ecomony is great pay - I am even fine with the fact that most of that $ goes back to their own county. OK - fine. But when there becomes a drain on programs there to support citizens and funded by TaxPayers - that is where I can actually feel myself getting hostile.
Now the ID Card ..... Can anyone say ... ACKTUNG! Show me your papers in the name of the Furhur!
Pathetic & some states can't even afford to do what the fed government says they must for checking driver's licenses - how can they pull off this national card thing?
This is Sooooooo unamerican in every way. Vigilence, security, crackdowns for National Security - sure ..... but this is retro and totally the most heavy handed thing - how is the ACLU dealing with this? This is obscene to every american - we shouldn't need to carry our "papers" to show we can walk down the sidewalk.
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Post by Patcat on Mar 29, 2006 14:22:34 GMT -5
To say I'm uneasy with the ID card is the understatement of the week.
As to illegal immigrants--why aren't the people who employ them made to pay for it? I see them as being far more guilty than the poor people who are seeking jobs.
And I'm furious about the provisions of some bills that would call for the arrest of people and organizations that aid illegal immigrants. Bravo to Cardinal Mahoney of Los Angeles who's indicated Catholic charities in the Los Angeles Archdiocese will not cooperate with authorities.
Patcat
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Post by trisha on Mar 29, 2006 16:24:29 GMT -5
Thank you, Metella! I forgot to mention that RealID is supposed to take the place of your drivers license, and that while they will all be State issued (and funded) they will be Federally controlled.
How's that for a power grab?
And you're right, it reeks of fascism. The "show me your papers," days will not be far behind the implementation of this program.
OH, and here's another frightening little tid-bit that I found; according to a quote by Arlen Spector in the Washington Post, he would like to use "unmanned aerial vehicles and other technologies," to patrol the US/Mexican border.
Hey Cassie, remember when I told you how I read about the NSA and DHS having future plans for unmanned aerial vehicles with the ability to swoop down and ask a person to present their ID to be scanned?
Yeah ... the future is now, and it's f*cking scary as helll.
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Lilee
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 190
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Post by Lilee on Mar 29, 2006 18:36:29 GMT -5
Here's an idea: how 'bout those chips they inject in your dog so if it's lost, the info can be retrieved. Or maybe tatoos like the bars used to scan grocery prices??? Then there is no worry about forging documents.
Jeez, scary stuff. How many movies, made YEARS ago, turned out to be prophecy?
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Post by Techguy on Mar 29, 2006 18:45:07 GMT -5
I agree with Metella about the "illegal immigration" issue. Yes we need cheap labor here to do some jobs Americans don't want. But I also start to get hostile and cry "FOUL!!!" that people who come here and break the law are given benefits and privileges (free education, health care, citizenship for children born here) that drain the resources for natural born citizens and legal immigrants. Eliminate the rewards of being here illegally, and let's see who's still willing to sneak across our borders.
About the RealID card: Achtung is spot on! This is 1984 crossed with Brave New World, 21st century style. This RealID proposal is a thinly disguised attempt to keep track of everyone'e whereabouts, their habits, movement, etc., all in the name of security and safety. Never has Ben Franklin's warnings about the dangers of giving up liberty for more security been more apropos.
BTW, has anyone checked Dubya's scalp for the mark of the beast?
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Post by trisha on Mar 29, 2006 18:52:19 GMT -5
Oh, Techguy, if only it were just a proposal! It's a law, my friend. It passed right through without discussion or debate, almost secretly, riding a bill that provided funds and supplies for our troops. Those who noticed it, and cried foul were silenced by the fact that to vote down the bill would hurt our troops and our efforts in Iraq.
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Post by Techguy on Mar 29, 2006 19:27:06 GMT -5
Trisha, it was a poor choice of word (proposal) on my part as it implies it's not a done deal.
Yet another reason for me to question--and get angry about--my time in the service supposedly defending this country and its freedoms.
Realistically, what can be done to combat complacency and indifference by the masses? It seems like, as long as the populace is kept entertained and distracted, biggie issues like this are allowed to fly under the radar with hardly a whimper of protest.
It reminds me of how lobsters are cooked--put them in tepid water and slowly raise the heat until it's too late. By the time you realize what's happening, YOU'RE DONE!
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Post by Cassie on Mar 29, 2006 21:24:13 GMT -5
according to a quote by Arlen Spector in the Washington Post, he would like to use "unmanned aerial vehicles and other technologies," to patrol the US/Mexican border. You just remember he is the man behind the "single bullet theory" for JFK's assassination. He knows what he is talking about ;D Yes, we are definitely here. Some older people say it feels like the early days of Nazi Germany, but more high tech. So what do we do? Whom can we turn to for guidance? We probably should not be talking about it so openly.
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Post by trisha on Mar 29, 2006 22:30:30 GMT -5
We probably should not be talking about it so openly. What?!!! Openly talking about it is what we MUST do. I say, tell everyone you know about RealID and if they don't believe you that it's real, tell them to google it and they'll find links that lead right to our own government's pages that outline the bill and tell who signed it into law. As things stand now, we still can talk openly and read the exactly what the laws that govern us entail, but that could change. Bush is already making up his own laws to spy on American's, and the GOP and Alberto the Nazi Gonzalez would like to make it a felony to publish "classified" material, no matter how scandalous, fascist, or completely unworthy of being classified the material being shown to the public is. Freedom of the press and freedom of speech are being challenged right now.You know what we need? We need another brave and outspoken leader like Abbie Hoffman or Malcolm X to stand up to this administration and blast a wake up call of truth to the sleep walking sheep of America. Oh how I wish Jon Stewart would be that hero. He's got so much clout with the press already. I wish he would just push a little harder for America, because he would get SO much coverage that people would certainly hear his message, even if only in those shallow news bits that just graze the surface of an issue.
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Post by Metella on Mar 30, 2006 8:43:21 GMT -5
you know, I brought this up to a friend (the ID card) yeah, well just like a driver's license.
I gaped in horror. A majority just seem to think if you are not a raving criminal - then what's the big deal? Well I have dealt with a raving criminal and let me tell you, he could get others to do his dirty work and this "law" would not hinder him much at all.
What is does is not give good and growing people a chance to settle into a life. Imagine if you had to act as you will/would in your 50's your whole life? No stealing one soda, no jay walking, no doing donuts in an empty parking lot at 2am ..... no starry eyed bad choices that you can over come and feel that you have built character!!
I know for a fact that I would be in jail for LIFE if all my past things were added up and plopped in front of Arlene Spector, and I am not a theif, murdress or liar.
Sheep is what they want. Oh, I'll discuss it out loud all right! I'll get (and have) right in people's faces and make them explain "why".
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Post by trisha on Mar 30, 2006 9:36:30 GMT -5
I'm not afraid of that batty old coot, Spector. It's people like Alberto Gonzalez and Michael Chertov that we have to worry about.
I think Chertov is the worst thing to happen to this country EVER. He's a complete megalomaniac and cares nothing for democracy or the American way. The DHS is a monster of an organization that's consistently hindered in its ability to act by the red tape and bureaucracy that comes from smashing 22 different federal agencies into one monster agency. Chertov can't control what he's got to the betterment of America, in fact, his inability to make the DHS function is why so many suffered and died during Katrina. But, he's so f*cking greedy for more power. It's not enough that he has:
The Border and Transportation Security directorate, which consists of:
. Customs · CIS (The services side of immigration) · Federal Protective Services (ICE the enforcement side of Customs and Immigration) · The Transportation Security Administration · Federal Law Enforcement Training Center · Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service · The Office for Domestic Preparedness
The Emergency Preparedness and Response directorate, which consists of:
· The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) · Health and Human Services · Nuclear Incident Response Team · Domestic Emergency Support Teams · National Domestic Preparedness Office
The Science and Technology directorate which consists of:
· CBRN Countermeasures Programs · Environmental Measurements Laboratory · National BW Defense Analysis Center · Plum Island Animal Disease Center
The Information Analysis and Infrastructure Protection directorate which consists of:
· The Federal Computer Incident Response Center · National Communications System · National Infrastructure Protection Center · Energy Security and Assurance Program
No, that's not enough for Chertov. He now wants to have control of documenting every person in this country, and have the ability and authority to monitor them.
For those who don't think this is an issue if they're not criminals, ask them if they would like for the DHS to know exactly where everyone in this country is at every moment; to be able to keep logs of your whereabouts and all your known associates and how often you meet with them; to be able to track how and where you travel and spend your money (you have to have ID to use a credit card or write a check, and Bush has been talking about "fazing out" cash!)
What can then happen to dissidents? People like Malcolm X, Abbie Hoffman, and Martin Luther King? Well, what happened to people like that in Nazi Germany and the USSR? Good God, look what happened to them HERE!! Do they really not think our politician's are capable of such atrocities today? A democracy unchecked by it's people is just a dictatorship waiting to happen.
Techguy, I've heard some people already calling RealID "The Mark of the Beast," but I'm not sure who's scalp we should check for this on, Bush's or Chertov's.
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Post by Metella on Mar 30, 2006 12:28:30 GMT -5
Snipets from a blog about the ID Card:
I for one will not comply, my AZ license is valid until 2024 and I will not replace it to comply
One of Hitler's first acts was to require national registration, and the licensing of all firearms. Whenever someone says "trust me", don't.
Keep in mind that the use of these WILL grow and that every time you get your card swiped, you will be logged some "law enforcement" database. This is the government keeping tabs on you
For a small measure of comfort. Over something that will probably be really easy to hack, this bill is proposing to strip the citizens of their rights and freedoms. The reality of this proposal is scary at best. Foolish in the least. If the FBI, and IRS (among other agencies) can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on systems that do not work (and never delivered), the only thing this bill does is create a GIGANTIC opportunity of abuse at every level.
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Post by Cassie on Mar 30, 2006 21:06:02 GMT -5
Oh I am not saying to remain completely silent. And just watch it all fall into place. Just be very careful in the future to whom you speak to. While I, continue to flap my jaws. What bothers me with all these laws and high tech crap. Bush, Spector and the rest of them, deep down inside, they know that it will all be used for some evil purpose someday. And their attitude must be something like “its not my problem, I won’t be alive”, or “job well done”. We will never know what is really driving them.
Just like our credit ratings, one little mistake by the government or some other institution can ruin your credit for years to come. What if in the future you need this ID card to buy the necessities of life. Can you imagine your notified by the Government, your activities are being restricted because of something that you said on this very Forum. I see it coming, and I think we need to take action, plus steps to protect ourselves. I am by no means saying don’t fight for our rights. Just that someday we will be drawing a sign in the dirt/sand, wondering if that person can be trusted.
There is a movie called “Left Behind” you can find it in your WalMart this movie is old bind for about $5.00. It’s about the antichrist coming to power. its a little campy, but it has some very valid points.
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Post by Metella on Mar 31, 2006 9:23:40 GMT -5
no no don't go to the evil Walmart to watch the anti-christ!
try and see if your library has this movie. they have lots. or Netflix or blockbuster .....
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