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Post by Jefferaldo on May 9, 2006 7:47:04 GMT -5
No no some of you might be getting the wrong idea. Even if the show starts airing new eps in January, there will still be a full season order (usually 21-26 episodes) but if it starts in January, all the new episodes will played week after week with no repeats.
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Post by mimi1802 on May 9, 2006 8:49:42 GMT -5
Logan is no match for this Nemesis.He is too at the mercy of his emotions.This could bring the whole Department into danger.Its Goren who has the power to defuse her,but only after hes assimilated Nicole........so theres time yet and story to unfold! Umm I don't think so! Logan can fight this nemesis perfectly well. I think that Balcer would have not given him a nemesis if he didn't think that Logan didn't have the emotional disposition and the intelligence to beat her. Balcer is the one who wrote Logan on the Mothership in a way that was interesting to watch. I believe Logan owns the perfect balance of positive and negative dispositions to beat Goldberg. Positive because of his experience with his mother that he can use to fuel him and fuel Mama Wesley's arrogance and force her to make a mistake. Negative for the same reasons if he lets his red-blooded temper take over; this why I wanted Barek to get more involved. His partner always played the role of catalyst for Logan, but maybe that's the point; this is a battle he must fight alone. Janet don't mistake Logan for a twit who cannot use psychology, deceit and manipulation to his advantage. Goren is not the sole holder of that power. Goren is an interesting character, but I don't think he should be described as the knightly savior of all psychological sins. Logan, unlike, Goren puts himself out there. For me Goren is a character "obscurely intelligent and detached" and Logan is "passionately intelligent and honest". Both provoke different reactions from me, but I don't like when people put one down in order to make the other shine. Yes psychology is not his cup of tea, but he has shown on the mothership that he understands it and can use it if has too. Yes I was surprised to see him interrogating Goldberg, but I knew he could play the mother angle and he did, better than I expected it. Goldberg outplayed him this time, but Logan's a fast learner and will get the tools he needs for the next encounter.
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Post by trisha on May 9, 2006 9:11:26 GMT -5
I agree with you for the most part Mimi. I'm a loyal Logan fan from back in the day, and I still love him. I very much approve of how he's been written for CI, and find that I'm liking him even more now then I did 10+ years ago.
Still, I'm very weary of the Nicole melodrama, and, as I wrote on the poll thread, I'd hate to see both sides of my favorite show become serials. I did enjoy this episode, though, so just have to stick around and hope for the best.
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Post by mikeyrocks on May 9, 2006 9:14:42 GMT -5
Thank you so much for that extremely eloquent post mimi1802. I feel much the same way but could not have worded it nearly as well as you did : )
Goren is a wonderful, intelligent and complex character - BUT he is not the only soul on this show capable of triumph!!
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Post by Metella on May 9, 2006 10:11:53 GMT -5
I don't think Logan got played too much, and he handled it by not giving her any emotion - just a stare and walked away. He had to try and I think all he was doing was trying - not getting emotionally involved.
As far as the undercover cop - Logan mentioned that he may have been disoriented after his beating and not been "with it" I can relate, not even after being hit - but by working out & doing spin kicks - one can be disoriented & need to just stand and recenter. I think that cop, seeing the energy he gave as he ran in there - would have tried until he was killed to save his little brother.
I really liked this one.
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Post by filmnoir5 on May 9, 2006 11:21:37 GMT -5
No no some of you might be getting the wrong idea. Even if the show starts airing new eps in January, there will still be a full season order (usually 21-26 episodes) but if it starts in January, all the new episodes will played week after week with no repeats. I agree this could be the case on any night but Sundays -- it was with Tuesdays (NYPD Blue) and Mondays (24)-- but the Oscars and Super Bowl and other high profile sporting events air on Sundays and the networks that oppose these sporting events or award shows pull out old movies and crime procedural reruns instead of showing new episodes for some of the people who actually do not watch sports and could care less about award shows. I hope you are right about the episode order of L&O:CI and the fact that NBC could think outside the box and actually not be afraid to show a new episode of shows in late May or early June. Because this season NBC is rolling over and playing dead even in the last few days of sweeps with L&O reruns against Lost and American Idol.
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Post by NicoleMarie on May 9, 2006 17:03:49 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I am not rejoicing over the downfall of Goren. I used to love that character! But he just hasn't been the same and the whole show has suffered the last 2 seasons. I'm not the only one who thinks so, see the ratrings! I B***hed and moaned louder than anyone about Logan coming on CI, but the voo doo episode and this one have proven me dead wrong. He is terrific on this show, even if his partner still sucks. (I'm hopeful she's on the to be replaced list.) I have been mourning Goren for a year and a half, but no more. I've all but given up on him and moved on to liking the show with Logan. D'Onofrio is still a good 40 pounds overweight, and still looks like general hell, so it appears he never did solve whatever his personal or health problems were. I'm sorry for that, but I wish him well. I have my great show back, and that is all I really care about! As much as I have moaned about Goren recently, it is going to appear to be sheer irony that I have to stick up him right now. Goren hasn't taken a downfall, he has simply changed as a character. He is definitley not the same Goren he was two seasons ago, much to my chargin. However, that does not mean he has "fallen" or that I even hate him now, like some people think. I doubt the show hasn't suffered any due to Goren's change, rather the ratings problems can be blamed directly on DH. I think I moaned louder than anyone about Logan coming to CI and still moan about it. Goren may be different and irritate me at times but, my loyalty is still to Goren because IMO, he is still a better character than Logan is. I hate Logan and always will. Now, as for VDO's looks, I don't think he looks like hell. I think he looks a bit funny with the super short hair cut, LOL, but, as for his weight, I think it's weight he gained from his last movie and hasn't lost yet. Extra weight doesn't diminish D'Onofrio's acting. <The Salton Sea, Full Metal Jacket, etc. I think Vincent just looks bored but, then again, so does Barek. And I like Barek. Logan is no match for this Nemesis.He is too at the mercy of his emotions.This could bring the whole Department into danger.Its Goren who has the power to defuse her,but only after hes assimilated Nicole........so theres time yet and story to unfold! I have to agree with you here, Janet. I think this episode shows Logans' lack of skills to be in MCS. I flipped back and forth between the Actors Studio and "To the Bone", yet I got the gist of the show. I fully watched the last 15 minutes. One of the reasons my loyalty remains with Goren is, IMO, Logan repeatedly demonstrates that he is not cut out for MCS. He doesn't have the perception or guile or insticts that Goren has. He cannot manipulate a suspect like Goren can, and for me, that's what makes CI CI. To be fair, Logan and his episodes are more "procedural" than Goren is and thus, you kinda have two different shows. However, I watch CI because it is not so procedural. It's another reason I so strongly resist Logan. Logan just seems...out of place on CI. But, since he's obviously here to stay, I'm crossing my fingers for the Logan fans that Logan's nemesis doesn't go down the road that CI takes us down with Nicole. But I do like Barek. I like her toned down self, her quiet demeanor. She seems more of an observer and a quiet gal. I hope she stays. And I have to echo filmnoirs' fears. I think CI intends to edge Goren and Eames out.
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Post by mikeyrocks on May 9, 2006 17:20:03 GMT -5
Aww Gee Nicolemarie and I thought that we'd converted you LOL!! Are you sure about HATE - how about hey he sort of annoys you ;D Long Live Logan - Sorry I couldn't resist : ) Anyway I hope that CI continues with its current cast - VDO/KE , AS/CN , CV as well - I think they are all great. Still very bummed about JS - But of course I wish him well. And by now everyone knows how I feel about Logan - always has been and to this day remains my fave L & O guy ( or gal for that matter LOL )!!
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Post by mimi1802 on May 9, 2006 19:25:15 GMT -5
NicoleMarie, For someone who only catches glimpses of Logan's episodes, you surely have an in-depth opinion about his new personnality, psychology and most and foremost place, or lack thereof, in MCS.
You are entitled to your opinion, but maybe a full viewing might shed a new light on the character.
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Post by mikeyrocks on May 9, 2006 19:40:26 GMT -5
mimi1802 - ;D
Just wanted to say that I have really enjoyed reading your posts.
You are like the voice of reason : )
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Post by Cassie on May 9, 2006 20:44:26 GMT -5
TechGuy,
I hear what your saying that if the “foster kid cop” suicided out….then all is lost in helping Antonio. Which your questioning is …then why bother to go and help the kid in the first place. I guess, my first gut reaction to seeing that scene played out was “suicide by cop” . I actually sat up on the sofa and yelled that out, before they even ID him as a cop. When Logan and Barek drew their guns and said they were the police. Maybe the “foster kid cop” felt all was lost for him and Antonio, maybe it was just a weak moment for him. I just think he knew a whole lot more of what life was like with Mama Chelsey and he knew the gig was up. Time may tell.
As for Logan having a nemesis all his own, and the show turning into a soapy serial. Remember what Dick Wolf said in the Chief of Detectives, article by Helen Barlow.
So which of the shows – whose stories are derived from newspaper headlines – is Wolf's favorite? "It's like my children, I like them all for different reasons," he says. "They were designed to do different things”
I don’t think LOCI was planning on having Nicole return as Goren’s nemesis, It just happened that way. I feel they brought her back only because the fans where going crazy because Goren showed some real interest in a woman. And she hurt him. He was definitely warm for her form in their first meeting. She was the closest the fans ever seen to having a real date. . I think this time around the writers gave Logan a nemesis that wasn’t quite attractive, (Sorry Whoopi, it’s the wig and the sunglasses, your just a tad too matronly here) …. Logan did not like Mama Chelsey from the get go. He said to her “I am not a fan of foster care, you know frozen rooms, starved kids” There will be no attempt to “save” Chelsey like their was for Nicole. This storyline may be what it is like for a real detective. Like Det. Tom Jensen and Det. Dave Reichert two real cops that for years searched the Northwest coast looking for the Green River Killer. Not every work day was devoted to putting a name to the Green River Killer, there were other cases to be solved along the way. Eventually they got their man, it took a good 20 years…his name is Gary Ridgeway. I see a real possible interesting storyline getting ready to unfold. And their won’t be any daydreams or fan fictions about Logan and Chelsey living happily every after.
As for Logan vs. Goren? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I think you tend to root for who you fell in love with first.
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Post by Jefferaldo on May 9, 2006 20:49:28 GMT -5
No no some of you might be getting the wrong idea. Even if the show starts airing new eps in January, there will still be a full season order (usually 21-26 episodes) but if it starts in January, all the new episodes will played week after week with no repeats. I agree this could be the case on any night but Sundays -- it was with Tuesdays (NYPD Blue) and Mondays (24)-- but the Oscars and Super Bowl and other high profile sporting events air on Sundays and the networks that oppose these sporting events or award shows pull out old movies and crime procedural reruns instead of showing new episodes for some of the people who actually do not watch sports and could care less about award shows. I hope you are right about the episode order of L&O:CI and the fact that NBC could think outside the box and actually not be afraid to show a new episode of shows in late May or early June. Because this season NBC is rolling over and playing dead even in the last few days of sweeps with L&O reruns against Lost and American Idol. Check thereel. It's a request that Dick Wolf made NBC -- to play it on Sundays starting January all new episodes in a row which means they will have to start shooting in September at the latest... And NBC's president is likely to grant that wish (says a media report) Anyway, I noticed that Logan switched to a Glock in this episode whereas he usually has a revolver...
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Post by filmnoir5 on May 9, 2006 21:37:20 GMT -5
Yes, I posted that article on this board. It is the one that appeared in Variety.
Yes it can be done if NBC realizes that it is not carved in stone for everything to end in a sweeps period and that some viewers do not care about the Oscars. I like the way FX and HBO do their schedule with new episodes for 13 to 18 weeks then another new show and so on. These 2 networks are not afraid to air popular shows in June.
I think it is a good idea if NBC stands by it. I guess we will read about in USA Today Monday or earlier if some of the web sites post late Sunday night.
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Post by stafford on May 9, 2006 21:46:42 GMT -5
I am not a huge fan of this episode, but Logan's agony at shooting a fellow policeman was some of the best acting the show has shown. Logan turned me off the first time I saw him on CI, when he disdainfully tossed Goren's psychology book back on the desk. But I have to admit he is growing on me.
Did anyone else notice that the cop who was a friend to the foster mother was the same actor who shot himself in the police station in the episode "Badge"? It might not have bothered me if I had not watched the episode just the other day...
As for the last lines from Deakins, I can't foresee what the problem could be with the officer who arrived late at the scene of Logan's shooting. I look forward to Sunday's episodes...
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Post by mimi1802 on May 10, 2006 9:07:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the compliment Mikeyrocks, but I'm no voice of reason.
I'm just a voice, and everybody here is entitled to their voices. CI is a show that appeals on many levels and though we watch for different reasons, One reason is not better than another.
Cassie, very astute comment, but love is also blind!
Although I've made it pretty clear that I'm no Goren admirer, given the choice, I would take a more involved Goren over a Logan in a heartbeat. Yet, a fascination over a character is not sufficient to keep me glued to the TV. That's where my loyalty ends.
I don't know if it's intentional or it's just me, but I get the feeling the Goren and Eames episodes are getting sabotaged: the stories are less interesting, Goren as a character is on neutral and Eames has been passing comments that go beyond the usual snarks. There was a bound that made this team work, a molecular activity that was palpable on screen, I sense that core was shattered.
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