It should not affect your enjoyment of the episode at all since for all we know it may not be true. The results are what is important and the result is that Wee Hours was well received by viewers and all actors appeared in the episode and did a good job.
Well. theothetically I don't disagree. It shouldn't but it does just the same. It is a dissapointment in much the same way I was dissapointed to hear that Alec Guiness hated Star Wars and spent the rest of his days regertting agreeing to be in it, lol.
And Metalla summed it up best, it is a sliding scale. I think we are all just defining where wh fall on the continuum!
This was a good episode...I say good (as opposed to great) because there were things I loved and things that I found not so hot. It's a minor gripe, but am I the only one who found the little stylized red-toned glimpses of the kids doing the second house a little....out of place? It felt CSI-esque, and perhaps I am just blinded by my hatred of all things CSI...but those shots bugged me.
Whoopi was very good, I really enjoyed her understated performance. It would have been horrible if she had been all Whoopi-fied and over the top. Her subtle performance was great because at the end when she just went ice-cold on Logan and whispered "now...lawyer" it sent chills down my spine. Good on you, Whoopi, nicely done!
Dr. Olivet!!! <---that's all I can even say about it, LOVE HER.
Also the whole cop shooting aspect was very well done. Definitely some of the best acting I've seen Noth do in a long while.
I freely admit I am still not adjusting to seeing Logan in the interrogation room (yeah, I know he interrogated people all the time on the Mothership...somehow feels totally different to me on LOCI). I felt in this episode like they were trying to get me to believe that Logan is capable of very subtle psychological manipulation (or maybe the opposite, since he failed miserably), and I just don't buy it. That is not to imply I in any way think Logan isn't smart as a whip...I just don't think that's his forte, and I don't want them to try to convince me otherwise. I like my Logan on the street, out pounding the pavement, gathering clues, interviewing people in shops and clubs and filthy doorways, swaggering around in his leather jacket and tacky plaid ties.
LOCI is definitely morphing...into what, I'm not sure. I mean, it has changed consistently since it began and that has never been a problem for me, but this season the shift I've been feeling actually makes me nervous for the first time. I've been having flashbacks of the trauma I felt over The X-Files back in the day.
On the gossip front, I'm admittedly petty and hypocritical. I love me some tacky celebrity gossip, but I have this little line in the sand between the people that I see as purely "entertainers" and those I see as artists.
I agree with you, janethyland. I'm a pretty recent convert to LOCI and have watched the episodes completely out of order, so maybe I'm not a good judge, but I have really enjoyed most of the season 4 episodes I've seen. I think they're of consistently high quality. Perhaps Goren's character has evolved over the seasons, but I think that happens with almost all long-running series. And though I enjoy his quirks, perhaps there were more than were needed in the early seasons. And I have definitely seen quirkiness in season 5 (did anyone else think it was comical in Cruise to Nowhere to see such a big guy sitting in the half lotus position to eat his eggplant parmagiana? And what kind of meal is that to bring into a jail cell to an emotionally stunted gambing addict??? I loved it). I actually think it takes greater writing and acting discipline not to rely too heavily on the quirks, especially if doing so takes emphasis away from the sophistication and centrality of the plots.
I wonder if this is a case of the quirks not fitting every episode's tone or a case of the character maturing or mellowing. Or was it a case of the powers that be toning the character down to get new viewers? If Goren were the same Goren from season 1 would the show still be on the air? I wonder if they thought the level of quirks from season one would get old with viewers or if they were trying to have the character grow up. Some one on another board said they were glad that "Jordan" was growing up. I know Archie Bunker mellowed on All In The Family as years progressed and so did Andy Sipowicz on NYPD Blue. Even Mike Logan has mellowed. Will House still stay popular if House does not mellow at all?
On the other hand, Elliot Stabler was much tamer in the beginning of SVU. Olivia was more of a "hot head" However, many viewers don't like the changes in Stabler.
Question : Would viewers want to see Goren's character become more intense like Stabler?
The tricky part is to keep the character with an edge without the character evidently going over the edge.
As for "To The Bone" and other Logan episodes, I do think the writers have let Logan have an edge without the viewers having to wonder each week if he was going to go over the edge.
am I the only one who found the little stylized red-toned glimpses of the kids doing the second house a little....out of place? It felt CSI-esque, and perhaps I am just blinded by my hatred of all things CSI...but those shots bugged me.
Maybe I'm not the right person to comment. Since I've never seen CSI I have no way of knowing if the scene you're referring to is CSI-esque or whatever that means. However, I can comment on my own feelings and reactions to the scene. I found the effect eerily unnerving, because I realized that a second home invasion was about to begin as Logan and Barek were piecing together the clues from the first. The unease ramped up considerably when we learn Logan and Barek are too late calling in a police presence to the second home.
I freely admit I am still not adjusting to seeing Logan in the interrogation room...I felt in this episode like they were trying to get me to believe that Logan is capable of very subtle psychological manipulation (or maybe the opposite, since he failed miserably), and I just don't buy it.
At first I also considered whether a profiler would have been more appropriate in the interrogation room. But then I reconsidered, knowing in advance that Whoopi Goldberg's character would be recurring, ie returning so there had to be a "failure" in the interrogation to allow Chesley to get away. Not only that, it makes sense to me that Logan would be the one to confront Chesley. To set the stage for the nemesis scenario, then someone with deep mother/foster care issues is the one to pull it off. Now I'm already anticipating where this storyline will lead, going into Season 6.
Patrick Roy, 2006 inductee into the Hockey Hall of Fame
Maybe I'm not the right person to comment. Since I've never seen CSI I have no way of knowing if the scene you're referring to is CSI-esque or whatever that means. However, I can comment on my own feelings and reactions to the scene. I found the effect eerily unnerving, because I realized that a second home invasion was about to begin as Logan and Barek were piecing together the clues from the first.
I completely agree with you Techguy, I think the little glimpses of the 2nd crime about to happen really were effective at ramping up the suspense. Absolutely.
My gripe, though incredibly petty, was simply with the camera effects they used, the unreal pulsing red lighting that flashed. As far as I can remember they have never done that before. It reminded me of techinques other crime shows use in flashbacks and crime reenactment scenes. I think LOCI has just about the most artistic and high quality camera work and editing on TV and it irked me to see them use a stylized effect that reminded me of other, crappier, shows.
Like I said, a petty gripe, but I had to get it out of my system
SarahIvy,I get a wondorful picture of you spinning.That is such an honourable pastime,or is it your job? Your comments about Logan "pounding the pavement,out on the streets"is so apt.Logan is definitely beginning to belong thematically in LOCI( you can see that in the Reel spoiler for The Good),but you are right,his territory is the streets of New York,in that Reality.He does seem out of place in the Interrogation Room with its constantly shifting perspectives and shimmery reflections.They should keep to the difference.
Thank you, Janet, for the kind words about my spinning and my Logan comments.
The spinning started as a hobby (I have a small homestead and 3 fiber producing goats), but it has turned into a home business, and just a few months ago I quit my library job to concentrate on it full time. I have to say it's been incredibly rewarding to be able to make a living as an artisan full time, I feel very very lucky.
Keep the differences, yes, that is all I ask! I absolutely adored Logan back on the Mothership, but I admit I have had a lot of misgivings about him joining LOCI and I've had a bit of a hard time adjusting to it (in case anyone missed it, I don't accept change well ). I'm slowly coming around, and as long as they play up Logan's strengths and don't try to morph him into something he is not, I really feel I'm going to be able to enjoy the L/B episodes completey on their own merit and not compare them to G/E episodes.
Post by NicoleMarie on May 13, 2006 19:26:01 GMT -5
You guys, I'm not saying Logan is stupid! I guess I should clarify - when I say he operates on a "lower level" then Goren, I meant as a profiler. I'm not saying that Logan isn't as good a profiler as Goren is that Logan is stupid. Logan is the "procedural" cop, Goren is the "profiler" and the profiling makes CI CI for me. That's all I'm saying. No diss, just my opinion/preference.
Post by culturevulture73 on May 14, 2006 14:58:36 GMT -5
It's a minor gripe, but am I the only one who found the little stylized red-toned glimpses of the kids doing the second house a little....out of place? It felt CSI-esque, and perhaps I am just blinded by my hatred of all things CSI...but those shots bugged me.
For me, it was Homicide-esque and checking the credits, yep, it was Jean de Segonzac who directed--he worked on Homicide as a Director of Photography and then a director, he's done lots of L&O and interestingly, did Exiled as well.
Even as a big Logan fan, I don't see him profiling and I wish he wouldn't. That's supposed to be what Barek brings to the table. Mike, like Eames, is a pound the pavement, dot the i's kind of cop.
Maybe theres a difference for those of us coming into the programme without pre conceptions,and that difference means it has to be accommodated as well.I dont link LOCI to anything before it,other proceedural dramas,Logans character elsewhere,prior VDO films.I take LOCI as an entirety,on its own.Ive only looked at these other things subsequently.But in the end it all brings me back to this one show.Even VDO's earlier acting can be seen as rehearsal in a way.This show is the thing.
Pre-conceptions??? What's that suppose to mean? Just because I used to watch Logan on the Mothership, just because I saw D'Onofrio in other movies, just because I watched other cop shows, it means I CAN'T watch CI for what's is worth, I therefore can't be objective?
Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on May 16, 2006 10:19:41 GMT -5
I agree with NicoleMarie, Logan is a lot like I believ Deakins to be when he was younger; a flat footed, conventional, traditional cop.
I think that we viewers are spoiled, so used to seeing Goren & Eames week after week that it would be understandable that we would be reluctant to chare our sundays with any other team. But I can trust that Logan/Noth is the man for the job & with the right partner (someone he can play off, like he used to with Jerry Orbach) he'd really shine.
Post by sweetums1930 on May 16, 2006 14:49:29 GMT -5
Ok, I have a few questions for you guys. I am new to the board, by the way!! My name is Shelly and I have been watching CI since it began. I love the fact that they brought Chris Noth to the show and I am aware he used to be on the original L&O but I never watched that show so I am a tad confused. First off, what exactly did Mike do on L&O that he got into trouble and his fellow cops don't like him much? Secondly, the doctor in this episode...was she ever on LOCI before? if not, how are we supposed to know who she is if she was only ever on L&O? Thirdly, what did the ending mean?? Did Chelsea get away with it? Did the detectives go out and find more clues to track her down? Do you think this ep. will be revisited later? What did the call mean that Deakins got at the end of the show?? I loved the episode, the fact that we got a bit "inside" of Mike...but some of it (especially the ending) confused me. I am loving the switch off between Goren/Eames and Logan/Barek this season. I love Chris Noth in anything he does. Somehow though, if they had used Gorn in this episode it could have been solved because he has this way of playing with crazy/controlling people's minds and making them give themselves up (everyone but that crazy Olivia D'Abo charcter that is...and that is only because the writers seem to love the chemistry between Gorn and her. A REAL Goren would have had her down LONG ago...LOL!) Lastly, what is the exact reason for the split in the episodes this season. I have not been keeping up much on behind the scenes news. Did something happen to D'Onofrio? Or did Kathryn Erbe want time off because of her child? Please let me know what you all think and I am glad to be here!! Shelly
"The art of conversation lies not only in saying the right thing at the right time, but in leaving unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment." -John C. Daly