Leticia
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 74
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Post by Leticia on Nov 7, 2006 11:43:24 GMT -5
I do love the Prom Queen moment, not just for itself, but for Goren's little look of humorous incredulity. Often when Eames gives one of her quips Goren shows no real acknowledgment so it's just Goren investigating and Eames being a snappy sidekick with one liners. But that was a real, believable bit of conversation with interaction that you can imagine between two people who've been spending most of the past year or so together.
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Post by Sirenna on Nov 7, 2006 12:35:05 GMT -5
This is one of my favourite episodes too.
Who said they have this one on their hard drive? How did you accomplish that?
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elizabethbay
Detective
Oh god, I've swallowed the tie clip...
Posts: 242
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Post by elizabethbay on Nov 7, 2006 12:40:27 GMT -5
Sirenna, I have it on my hard drive. There are a number of software programs that enable you to make the transfer from DVD to HD. I use AoA. It's a key-opened program (you pay by credit card, and the key code is sent to you almost immediately), very inexpensive, very efficient for basic transfers.
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Post by Sirenna on Nov 11, 2006 19:52:40 GMT -5
thanks for the info/
This was one of the episodes that proved to me, at least, that Goren was a well rounded character, irregardless of the childhood he might have had. In this episode he used all of that and still came off as thoughly grounded. And if he could be then maybe the kid with the crazy dad could be too.
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BeachBoy
Silver Shield Investigator
Still Cruisin' After All Of These Years ...
Posts: 146
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Post by BeachBoy on Nov 12, 2006 7:37:18 GMT -5
A episode from the first 4 seasons, now I can discuss with you. ;D
A very good episode, it was THIS episode where I became a fan of CI.
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Post by sarahlee on Nov 12, 2006 20:03:48 GMT -5
Good choice, BB. This one had so many little insights into Goren and Eames. The supporting cast was so good, it really was an ensemble piece; with a sterling cast, compelling and well-crafted story, and excellent direction. Every time I see this one, I am touched and moved in the same places, but I always find new points to ponder. Someone else said (techguy?) that the CI epis need to be re-watched, because the stories and the acting are so layered; I enjoy that.
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Post by DonnaJo on Mar 25, 2007 19:57:18 GMT -5
Caught this episode again last night on Bravo. It reminded me of how many times over the years there has been a CI episode where a parent, having the "Best Intentions" for their child, commits murder. In "Bright Boy," for example, the Dad murders two people so his son will get accepted into a prestigious school for baby geniuses.
In the episode "In The Wee Small Hours" the mother murders a young teenage girl so her son is not implicated in her rape & in the death of another girl. In "Shandeh" the matriarchal mother has her daughter in law murdered so her son will not lose custody of his children & is not ridiculed by a divorce. In "Badge" the female security officer murders an entire family so she can send her daughters to a private school. And in "Smothered," Dale's mother has his wife & her unborn child murdered so he isn't trapped into marrying her.
All different examples of a parent committing the ultimate horrible act for their child. And Goren has different reactions to each situation.
In "Bright Boy" he seems to feel sympathy for the Dad at the end. More sympathy than Eames has for the man. The dad agreeing to confess to save Robbie a trial appearance also redeems him a bit in Goren's eyes.
Goren also seems to feel sympathy for the mother from ITWSH . When he whispers to her "save him" he does it with kindness.
Now, the mothers in "Badge," "Smothered," and "Shandeh" don't rate this compassion from Goren. He has nothing but disdain & disgust for their actions. Is this because the children they were "protecting" were adults themselves? Not helpless children?
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Post by Cassie on Mar 25, 2007 20:36:04 GMT -5
I like your theory DonnaJo, but I always have felt that when Goren is suggesting to the dad in Bright Boy, that he do the right thing, so Robbie does not learn the whole truth , What Goren really wanted to to was put the dad through the wall. Almost like he wanted a good excuse to deck him. Look at Goren's eyes. I saw real anger in them. To me, that scene was one of VDO's finest performances as Det Goren. Gosh, I think I will have to go and pull it out and rewatch it
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elizabethbay
Detective
Oh god, I've swallowed the tie clip...
Posts: 242
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Post by elizabethbay on Mar 25, 2007 20:55:06 GMT -5
Interesting observation DonnaJo:
Seems to me that Goren's reaction depends largely on the wider effect of the murder(s). If innocent children suffer, then his outrage/contempt is boundless and pitiless. At the end of "Badge" , Goren makes that point loud and clear. In "Smothered", an unborn child is among the victims - at the hand of its own grandmother, viler still. In "Shandeh", we actually see the children grieving for their mother - again victims of their grandmother.
Wow, evil grannies everywhere in LOCI, come to think of it. Throw in Chinoiserie's grannie Lucille Mowbray, and right there you have a trifecta.
The odd one out to me is The Enemy Within. One much-emphasised slight that motivates Rick Zainer to orchestrate the implosion of the Sternman family is the cruel dashing of his hopes to get his sons into private school. Doesn't stop Goren from being an SOB to Zainer - in fact, it's probably the one and only episode where I felt really sorry for the perp, and Goren just savaged him.
Can't speak to the issue of ITWSH, because I haven't seen it yet.
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elizabethbay
Detective
Oh god, I've swallowed the tie clip...
Posts: 242
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Post by elizabethbay on Mar 25, 2007 21:35:05 GMT -5
Interesting, Cassie. I saw just the opposite in Goren's eyes when he nailed the dad in Bright Boy, especially at that moment when the father says, with a lump in his throat, "Okay", and agrees to confess in order to spare his son testifying at a trial. Goren has his hand on the agitated man's shoulder, restraining him from leaving the room, certainly, but also making a physical connection with him. When the "Okay" comes, Goren's eyes and expression perceptibly soften, and his hand on the man's shoulder looks gentler, too. Just my view of it, but it always struck me as one of those exquisite maximum-acting, minimum-speaking moments in LOCI.
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Post by DonnaJo on Mar 26, 2007 7:12:04 GMT -5
elizabethbay,
I almost mentioned that aspect in my post - that perhaps the diffierence with Goren is that he has absolutely no compassion if the death of an innocent child is involved. But what dashed this theory for me was the episode INWSH (which you didn't see yet). The mother murders an innocent, young teenage girl to protect her son. Yet Goren shows her compassion during the interrogation. He even seems to understand her.
On that note, it amazes me how Goren, who has never had a child, can understand the unbelievable protectiveness & overwhelming love a parent, especially a mother, can have for their children. And that this can sometimes drive them to commit terrible acts.
I like to think that I would never do anything illegal or immoral to protect my children, but honestly, I don't know.
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Post by Patcat on Mar 26, 2007 8:35:38 GMT -5
Perhaps Goren recognizes that the mother of INWSH is caught. like her son, in an abusive relationship with a very powerful man. For me, it's another example of Goren recognizing the why of behavior without excusing the behavior.
Goren is presented as remarkably perceptive regarding parents and children. Maybe it's because he had to act as the adult--the parent--in his relationship with his mother and possibly even his father and brother?
Patcat
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