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Post by janetcatbird on Nov 14, 2006 22:17:48 GMT -5
I was pleasantly surprised. Yes, this is without a doubt a Very Special Episode, but I don't think they went unbelievably melodramatic or hokey. People in jobs like cops and stuff do get called in when they'd rather not, and during bad time personal and family issues do intrude.
Ignorance disclaimer: I am not very knowledgeable about schizophrenia and have not spent much time around people who are mentally ill. However, I was impressed with Rita Moreno as Mama Goren. I'm not sure we needed quite so many cut-aways (I would have preferred a brief view in the beginning followed by ringing cell phones), but she did an excellent job.
I like the different side to Ross--a loyal friend, a Dad who's trying to make things nice for his kids in a dicey situation. And he may be a strict boss asserting control but there was "I'll have you out of here as soon as I can" and the subtle signs of sympathetic disapproval. Leight-like-other or not, he's a great character.
Joe Eames!! I was so excited to get that little touch, especially since it was a surprise. (Maybe the writers felt guilty that Goren and Mama got the highlights and Eames got all of five seconds with some kids in the back yard.) Slightly disappointed since in my fangirl mind her hubby was Tommy, but oh well. Sneaking suspicion the nephew's name will be Joey or something as revealed in later episodes.
Quite impressed with Fran Drescher as the mother--they shouldn't have let her touch the body I don't think--and the father's last mini-aria blew me away.
I'll shut up and let other people respond now. Thank heavens I taped it.
--Catbird
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Post by sobergal95 on Nov 14, 2006 22:26:50 GMT -5
My dog had to go out about mid-way so I think I missed something good so I have to rewatch before really posting. But since there are peeps half-way round the globe awaiting our every word, I will say it didn't stink. In a word : "WOW".
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Post by Patcat on Nov 14, 2006 22:28:24 GMT -5
It was a helluva ride, and I found some of it really difficult to watch. If this is what Bobby Goren has had to deal with over the years, it's a wonder he's held it together over the years. And, considering what he was dealing with, Bobby did good work.
I just wish he'd tell someone--I get the sense Ross wouldn't have called him in if the captain knew all the details. At the very least I think he'd give Goren a break. And for all of the conflict between Ross and Goren, Ross does recognize Goren and Eames are his best detectives.
I agree that Fran Drescher was excellent.
And Erbe had some great scenes and was great in them. But somehow I don't see the Eames kids dressing up as pilgrims and Indians.
Patcat
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Post by sarahlee on Nov 14, 2006 22:29:09 GMT -5
WTH???!!! DID BOBBY JUST QUIT?
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lodi
Rookie
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Post by lodi on Nov 14, 2006 22:30:18 GMT -5
I missed the beginning! I'm a minister - damn those church committee meetings can go on! Oops, guess that didn't sound so ministerial... I picked up right before they called off the search in the woods - about 15-20 minutes in. I hope they replay this one.
Question - why was Goren so pissed off in the last scene? Was he still mad at the father, or at Ross? What did he say right before, "If you want to fire me, fire me."? Quite the temper tantrum. And what a mess he looked. He's crackin.
Ooo... I need another look. And like most of my kind, I am technologically inept. I haven't been able to record anything since I got this stupid box for my high speed internet and it messed with the cable...
Lodi
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lodi
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Post by lodi on Nov 14, 2006 22:32:47 GMT -5
And another thing - the scenes I saw with the mother - she seemed more like narcissistic personality disorder than schitzophrenia. Messing with his career, threatening to run away if he didn't come right over... very manipulative.
Lodi
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Post by det1stgrade on Nov 14, 2006 22:32:56 GMT -5
I thought Fran Drescher did a good job. Liked seeing Ross' different side ~ in the field when he admitted that he needed Bobby back there, and the support he showed for his friend.
I was surprised at Alex's reactions to Bobby's outbursts. She seemed to be po'd and giving him the "cold shoulder" -- I would've expected her to as least ask if he (or everything) was all right.
I think is was a good portrayal by VDO -- it's apparent that the stress of Bobby's job and the role of being his mother's sole "support system" is wearing him down. He seemed so "fed up" at being pulled in both directions between his sense of loyalty and duty to both job and mother.
The weeks ahead should be interesting.
All in all, I luved this ep and the "personal" glimpses into Bobby and Alex. I like how she told Ross about her husband's death--very "just the facts" --and not going into detail to drum up Ross' sympathy.
Can't wait to read all the FF stories that THIS one's gonna spawn.
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Post by gorensdoppelganger on Nov 14, 2006 22:33:06 GMT -5
I'm conflicted on how Eames handled the situation with Bobby. She wasn't very sympathetic and understanding of the stress he was under toward then end of the episode. I don't like how she handled the scene by the elevator. I know she's a "work" person and that feelings aren't her strong point, but she could have extended herself a bit more and not made things harder on her partner by then being short and distant with him, knowing how much strain he was under. Eames in my opinion should have been a better partner, instead she made it about herself.
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Post by caseyswife on Nov 14, 2006 22:42:31 GMT -5
I know this episode will require multiple viewings - so many undercurrents and parallels and subplots to explore/speculate about!! I cannot wait to hear from janethyland in a week or so... ;D At first like Catbird, I thought the back and forth pace was just a bit to much. Then my husband turned and said this to me: "Well, the pace of the show echoed the back and forth direction that Goren is being internally pulled in... that was pretty cool..." I knew I married him for a reason! Love ya, Hon... So my initial thoughts - knowing that a second and/or third viewing is most certainly required: I was somewhat relieved to see that Ross isn't a TOTAL a**hole... Impressed by the believability of Moreno as Mother Goren... ;D Surprised to learn the personal details about Eames... And the frantic pace more than adequately conveys dear Bobby's inner frenzy... Thought that Drescher and Beihn did admirable jobs... and the plot leaves many different layers and subplot ideas to pick up... But that last line .... AAIIGGHH!!! Made my blood run cold... Bobby needs a nice quiet library where cell phones aren't allowed... caseyswife
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Post by gorensdoppelganger on Nov 14, 2006 22:47:00 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with things catching up to Bobby and needing to finally blow his steam, yet, I'm feeling like the show jumped the shark as the espression goes. I'll have to watch the episode again, but I didn't feel invested in this episode. Even in Vincent's performance.
It just didn't make sense as to when he lost it, to me it would have been much earlier in the episode when his mother was saying she felt all alone and unable to cope with the tests without him. It felt manipulated/staged by the writers to get a full episode. It would have felt more real to me if he blew up after his mother hanged up on him, and then he came back at the end to help get the confession. It did feel more SVU then CI tonight, and to me not in a good way.
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Post by det1stgrade on Nov 14, 2006 22:50:41 GMT -5
Exactly what I think they were going for... having us watch the back & forth pace between Bobby's job and mother. If it made US feel overwhelmed/distracted to WATCH it, imagine how Bobby feels having to LIVE it! It sucked me right in to being able to feel his frustration. Another great (NOT!!) Thanksgiving Day he can chalk up... makes ya' wonder if the poor guy EVER has a good day.
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Post by sarahlee on Nov 14, 2006 22:51:20 GMT -5
And another thing - the scenes I saw with the mother - she seemed more like narcissistic personality disorder than schitzophrenia. Messing with his career, threatening to run away if he didn't come right over... very manipulative. Lodi People with mental illness can often have more than one diagnosis, say, schizophrenic with bi-polar features and autism. And from my experience, I see Robert's mom as showing signs of dementia, which can cause the patient to act selfish and manipulative. If she has cancer, the cancer itself, or the meds, can cause dementia and personality changes. This seemed to be an old familiar habit between them, Bobby has been dealing with this for a long time.
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Post by musicwench on Nov 14, 2006 22:59:44 GMT -5
Great episode over all. Loved Michael Biehn and Fran Drescher. Rita Moreno did an excellent job.
I guess because I can relate to Eames, I empathize with her as well and quite frankly, it was a realistic reaction - her getting pissed at Bobby. She hasn't had it easy since the season began either. She keeps things bottled up too and perhaps she was pissed that he seemed to be closing her off. She's frustrated that he won't let her help him when it seemed she let him help her after her kidnapping - driving her to the shrink appointments, etc. Perhaps she's also giving herself some distance because sometimes, when you have a friend who seems to be losing it and despite your efforts to reach out - and she did several times throughout the episode - your self preservation instincts kick in and you just say screw it.
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Post by stafford on Nov 14, 2006 23:11:24 GMT -5
I loved this episode but several things seemed a little off
Every time Eames asked goren about his "real" life and not the case he never answered her. Was I the only one who caught this?? It did seem as if she was trying to get him to let her in as musicwench said, but I'm not saying that it was all on Eames part Goren shouldn't have blown up at her like that. All in all it was both parts of the team that were at fault.
This was a wonderful episode I loved how we go to see a sneak peek into the characters personal lives. The mentioning of Joe was quite a suprise. I had heard it mentioned on message boards that she was a widow but I never expected them to have her tell Ross I figured it would be revealed in a conversation with someone a little closer to her. Perhaps Goren.
Rita Moren, Fran Drescher, and Michael Biehn all did fantastic jobs all very well portrayed and great acting on all parts
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Post by gorensdoppelganger on Nov 14, 2006 23:14:26 GMT -5
I hear what you're saying to a point about Eames getting frustrated, it was Bobby's point to blow, and hey I can't blame the guy. I guess the problem I have it with her making it about herself, like she was afraid that her reputation would be tarnished with Ross by Bobby's behavior. I respect the fact that she tried with Bobby, probably more so then she has extended herself even with her own family, in trying to be supportive, but I still feel a bit like she was kicking Bobby when he was down.
I think the episode brings home an important fact, that as American's we're expected to put work above everything, and I don't think that should be the case. We have a right to time off and to be with our loved ones when they are ill.
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