effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
|
Post by effie on Nov 15, 2006 14:51:33 GMT -5
Oh, and for any [other] costuming nuts out there... was this the first time this season that the Burberry made its appearance? I can't remember him wearing it any other time. Granted its just now getting cold enough for it, but why the heck dig it out to go around junkyards?? Love him in plainclothes, so that was all good, I just thought the choice of coat odd... but it could certainly have been yet another symptom of the unbalanced nature of everyone's outlooks. All those layered clothes were just another "layer" -- :0)
|
|
|
Post by janetcatbird on Nov 15, 2006 15:51:11 GMT -5
As to Eames, I don't blame her--it wasn't her best moment, but everybody had frayed nerves. She tried to be a helpful and supporting partner, and while nobody expected a heartfelt "I couldn't do it without you", lord! She probably wouldn't have told Ross more than the bare bones ("His mom's in a care facility and she's been diagnosed with lymphoma; she's not doing good.") because it's not her story to tell.
Goren did pitch a temper tantrum and it was unprofessional. I can understand a quick, one-time pounding the desk with your fist. But shoving everything onto the floor? Save it for your alone time, and if you can't hold it in to go home then go lock yourself in the bathroom/police locker room to cuss a blue streak. But Goren has never been one to blow up publicly, that I think isn't as true to his character as it would have been for a private venting. Eames knows he's got it rough, and can understand stress, but there's no need for her to be a conciliatory doormat. (Random musing: Why didn't Goren pull his Army experience to show that yes indeed he could relate?)
What on earth made him think Ross was going to fire him? That was overstating the situation. All the captain said was "paperwork" which I figured meant normal case report with maybe some extra vacation stuff tacked on. Ross sets the job as a priority--perhaps that was a factor in the divorce?--but he's human and understanding. (You think Deakins wouldn't have made the comment that "That's uncalled for?" or at least a warning "Detective..."?) Ross may be a bit of an anti-hero but I like his character and can see where he comes from.
Even the "Glad you could join us, detective", while it came across as snarky and obnoxious, was probably not meant maliciously. Goren had a drive just like they did, and while Ross is still in his "Don't mess with the boss" stage, he may have just meant it as "Stay focused with the job." Maybe he thought a bit of needling would get Goren's dander up in a good way to drive him to work hard and prove himself.
While I didn't expect Eames to mention her husband, it didn't surprise me that it would come up with Ross. It was relevant to the situation, and as a cop he's understanding that bad stuff happens without getting overly gushy. Maybe that's her own way of reasserting her professional cop identity? I may have the oddball partner who's currently spazzing out, but I can handle things. (Besides, we know Goren would know by now, and it's not like he was in any condition to listen to talk about her family.) I've said before, I think Eames is guarded around Goren, at least in terms of how much she tells him, because she doesn't want him poking around her head and trying to figure out her deep dark private things. Goren, out of respect for her, mostly turns it off around her but it doesn't mean he couldn't glean some insight into what makes her tick.
Why is a 24-year-old, full grown adult woman, and a soldier for brying out loud, sneaking out of the house and changing clothes at her friend's? Couldn't she say she was going out with her friend for a girl's night? And someone raised a point on another board, whith a skinny, spaghetti-strap dress you do not wear a bra with straps. That's just tacky, but it's also a continuity goof because she only had the one dress strap the guy slid off her shoulder in the club. Wardrobe and props had a failure to communicate when throwing the clothes out in the woods.
The case was secondary to personal details, which is a shame because what (little) they did with this was heart-wrenching. I braced myself that this was a Very Special Episode, and was glad that they handled most of the stuff well, but it doesn't mean I want it every week. (I loved "Aftershock" in the mothership because it was that just-once glimpse into the people behind the jobs. We see it once, it makes us think and we can look back to it, but it didn't become Standard Operating Procedure.) But, lord help us, that's probably what we will get since Mama Goren is in for at least two more episodes.
--Catbird
PS: I hate that stalker cam! At least they toned it down, but it still wasn't necessary in the club scene. They're still implying that "loose women" (for lack of a better phrase) are asking for what happens to them. Music was bearable after the teaser. I want my chung-chung's back. Yes I'm a whiny baby, but I can't help these things.
|
|
|
Post by sobergal95 on Nov 15, 2006 17:00:22 GMT -5
Just a quick one: I thought it was nice to see Eames in a dress for a change! And I'm NOT a fashion guru or anything, but I thought the boots were a little wierd. And how about the little scene in to coffee shop? I'm sure it was in the same building, but good to see they get off the 11th floor every now and then! And, hmmmmm.... Eames comment about the husband "Its nice to think you're more than the job..." Even though he died 8 years ago, makes you wonder if they would be together now? And though we are talking about all the personal stuff, I don't think it was really TOO much. I wouldn't want every episode to be like this, but they stayed on point mostly. So let me ask this: will the Army now be reviewing that unit's actions? Obviously the NYPD's part in this would be over.
|
|
|
Post by sobergal95 on Nov 15, 2006 17:15:22 GMT -5
Why is a 24-year-old, full grown adult woman, and a soldier for brying out loud, sneaking out of the house and changing clothes at her friend's? Couldn't she say she was going out with her friend for a girl's night? My guess on that is that she figured mom and dad (especially dad) wouldn't approve since she was going to be getting married the next weekend. And I think the girlfriend was also married? Just a thought anyhow.
|
|
|
Post by trisha on Nov 15, 2006 17:19:07 GMT -5
I don't like seeing Goren having temper tantrums. It's not in the nature of the guy we have known for the past 6 years to behave this way. One outburst I could understand, but he was totally out of control and at the end I thought, "I hope they do fire him." I'd rather he get fired and be gone from the show than watch a great character be destroyed to "add more drama." Blech.
The story was okay, but the soldier getting killed to hide war crimes has been done before by the mothership (more than once, I think) and a few other crime dramas, as well. It's a bit cliche at this point. I'd have liked to see a differen motive for this one.
|
|
|
Post by Sirenna on Nov 15, 2006 17:32:30 GMT -5
I think the themes have become a bit stale lately. It's a bit sad really.
|
|
|
Post by Summerfield on Nov 15, 2006 18:04:02 GMT -5
What a beautiful, crafted piece about duty and honor.
|
|
|
Post by ktdid on Nov 15, 2006 18:25:24 GMT -5
Having been a long time fan, more recently obsessed (hence posting on message boards), I really "enjoyed" this ep. I think I was craving more info on the characters than I'd like to admit, and they did a good job. The whole thing was quite wrenching. I am guessing Bobby is spiraling downward now (since he has dealt with Momma's probs for years) b/c she is dying. But it still seems strange to me - almost sudden. He obviously doesn't really want to lose his job - he could have gotten out of work, but he kept taking the calls, working the case, etc. His job IS his life - he really would be lost without it.
His coldness to Eames seemed very unusual. I also thought the casual way she mentioned being widowed to Ross also seemed out of place. But I guess the idea was to get as much personal info out in one ep as possible...
I am looking forward to seeing more of Momma - and Goren's final release from her. He has put his life on hold. If she dies AND he loses his job, he will have nothing left.
|
|
elizabethbay
Detective
Oh god, I've swallowed the tie clip...
Posts: 242
|
Post by elizabethbay on Nov 15, 2006 20:20:44 GMT -5
From what I'm reading here, I'm beginning to appreciate the supreme irony of the Thanksgiving setting for this episode. Thankless mother, thankless elder son, thankless partner (one or both), possibly semi-thankless captain. No warm and fuzzy lingering shots of hand-holding families with heads bowed around the turkey, no chicken-soup-for-the-soul ending. Nice pairing of a Norman Rockwell season with an Edward Albee script, if I read these posts correctly.
|
|
|
Post by SarahIvy on Nov 15, 2006 20:26:18 GMT -5
Nice pairing of a Norman Rockwell season with an Edward Albee script Oh my, now that is a perfect description!
|
|
|
Post by raeangel319 on Nov 15, 2006 20:33:54 GMT -5
OK, don't virtually shoot me - I know there is a lot of sympathy for Goren out there and I feel for the guy too - but, as the daughter of a mentally ill mother, I was a little surprised at the level of enmeshment between Goren and his mom. I knew he was her primary caretaker, but thought he would have developed some pretty firm boundaries by now in order to survive. I know that I am very careful about when I answer the phone. Of course, Frances is dying and maybe that is why all boundaries are out the window... and maybe she does have some dementia or is altered by medication... but my mom has had several heart surgeries and wow, you still have to protect yourself to some degree. The nurses could call him if there was a change in her condition. She was really pulling his strings at a time when he wasn't free to respond. If his life has been wrapped up in hers for that long to that degree, he is going to have quite an identity crisis after she dies. ok..but...goren has pretty much been his primary caretaker since he was 7 years old. saying that he and his mom are "enmeshed"...if i understand what you are saying...in my opinion, is an understatement. he grew up caring for her...the father was useless (abandoned them...and wasn't he abusive too? or is that just out of fanfiction. geez! can't keep the fanfiction and the real show straight!)....the brother likely wasn't much help...but who knows. bobby probably didn't have the chance to grow up learning how to take care of his own emotional well being....and learning how to distance himself from his mother and her states... don't know if that makes sense...but i'm not quite sure how to say what i'm thinking. too many acronyms in this episode...i only understand some of them: "what happens TDY, stays TDY"...TDY??? "you learn how to DIY in iraq" (or something)...ok DIY=do it yourself..i got that... what does SID mean? it's not just this episode...it had something to do with phones. when they were tracking the cell phone towers she was using.... oh man..i know i had more to say. but now i'm drawing a blank. i'll have to post again later when i remember it
|
|
late2theparty
Rookie
"A house without books is like a room without windows." Horace Mann
Posts: 9
|
Post by late2theparty on Nov 15, 2006 20:36:51 GMT -5
And enough already about VDO's weight or size...he was in plainclothes, for one thing, which don't hide as well as a nicely cut suit. And he was tired and exhausted and layered up for the cold. Cut him some slack! Ah, saharatea, it’s not VDO's weight or size we care about. It’s the Smithsonian Magazine reading, treadmill using Goren’s weight and size we care about. We simply have a hard time believing that he gave up the former and in doing so lost the benefits of the latter.
|
|
late2theparty
Rookie
"A house without books is like a room without windows." Horace Mann
Posts: 9
|
Post by late2theparty on Nov 15, 2006 20:58:06 GMT -5
Why is a 24-year-old, full grown adult woman, and a soldier for brying out loud, sneaking out of the house and changing clothes at her friend's? Couldn't she say she was going out with her friend for a girl's night? Which then begs the question, if she didn’t feel secure enough to tell them something as “unimportant” as she was going out with a friend, why would she feel that she could tell them about something as heinous as a war crime? Which also brings to mind the question why did she tell anyone at all that she was going to report them and why the people that she knew were murderers? How could she possibly think that she would be safe in their company?
|
|
late2theparty
Rookie
"A house without books is like a room without windows." Horace Mann
Posts: 9
|
Post by late2theparty on Nov 15, 2006 21:03:54 GMT -5
Post after post of praise left me with an unsettled feeling that something was wrong with this picture. Then I finally figured it out.
We used to watch a show called “Are You Afraid of the Dark? Every week a group of friends gathered around a campfire to tell stories. We knew a little about them, not much more than we needed to. The focus was on the story.
TWAH is a good example of what happens when you get away from telling the stories of why the criminals do what they do, which is what the Criminal Intent franchise is supposed to be, and start telling the stories of the major case squad detectives. It’s too bad that if they felt it was necessary to change this focus that they couldn’t have them respond with dignity and grace.
Not everybody no matter how traumatic their life is falls apart at the illness or death of a loved one, because--- well--- people do get sick and people do die. Not everyone resorts to being unpleasant, uncaring or selfish. They do the characters a disservice. They do us a disservice because for the sake of “drama” (not the story) they have everyone at their worst.
As lodi said, “If your organization is that dependent on one guy, you have trouble. “ Ross pulled Goren because he wanted to look good. A real Rabbi would have made sure that his person was in on a high profile case, so this was the perfect story to have both teams of detectives involved. The actual story that they chose to tell was okay as far as stories goes. It just didn’t belong in this universe. As Metella pointed out, there was a mass murder and a cover up of a mass murder. Now that was a fitting story for Criminal Intent.
She’s also correct when she says once Goren made the decision to work then that’s where his focus should have been. I have a hard time believing that in the US anything other than critical medical procedures would be done on a holiday, so it was either so serious that he should have stayed or it was a plot device to gain sympathy/empathy. In either case he made the decision and that should have been the end of that storyline. The back and forth was annoying and useless. They should have portrayed his distraction in subtle ways.
Funny thing is that they could have just ended the “family scenes” with Frances Goren’s “Yeah. I know. Goodbye.” and wave of her hand and it would have been satisfying enough. We would have gotten the point.
Now, over on Criminal Minds, when they wrote the brilliant profiler’s schizophrenic Mom into the story, she actually belonged in the story. Methinks we’re being bested by the imitator. Of course they aren’t making any effort to change who they are to appease the god of ratings either.
|
|
|
Post by caseyswife on Nov 15, 2006 21:12:56 GMT -5
Well, the guy was her lover when they were in Iraq... so maybe she felt she could convince him that the truth needed to come out. After repeated viewings, I am still in shock over this episode. The undercurrents running throughout are just phenominal. And the interrogation at the end - the whole she betrayed her "brothers", she was headstrong and had to be a hero... If Bobby keeps this up, I have a feeling Eames is going to find herself in that situation. Which makes the whole Bobby sympathetic with the perp and Eames standing up for the victim that much more intriguing. caseyswife
|
|