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Post by DonnaJo on Feb 3, 2009 8:55:58 GMT -5
An excellent analysis of the episode, tjara. That scene at the bar. If I remember, this was aired shortly after "The War At Home." Everyone (including myself) was waiting anxiously for some continuation of the tension between Goren & Eames (elevator scene). So we assumed that this was it. But in hindsight, it was simply a reaction to the tension of the ongoing investigation of Mrs. Pagolis. Eames admired her & believed her innocent-Goren did not. "Are we OK?" was all about the differing opinion. I also like how you view Davo O.'s confession as timely. I thought it was rushed, but after reading your case on the matter, I am reconsidering that.
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Post by outerbankschick on Feb 3, 2009 17:03:33 GMT -5
Great insight, Tjara! I also really liked this episode. You laid out those classic Goren moments beautifully.
For Bobby, Mrs. Pagolis' situation was black-and-white. "If she stays in it, she must be getting something out of it."
Alex may have thought he was being harsh, but that's just the way he is. Just as, when they are at the bar and find out they will get their hands on the tapes, Alex is lamenting that it's all over for Mrs. Pagolis because the tapes will not only bring her husband down, but her as well. Bobby just looks at her with all the patient understanding in the world, but with this firmness in his eyes, and says, "Then she shouldn't have bugged him. She should've left him."
Interesting that so many cops are portrayed as okay with revenge, even seeking it themselves, but it seems to me that Bobby is always more concerned with what's right. He understands that revenge only harms everyone involved.
Motives seem to be a big part of what moves him to form opinions. He never takes the side of the criminal against the side of justice, but he is careful about wanting justice to be served in the right amount.
John Taggert in "Want" comes to mind. Bobby went to bat for the guy because he didn't believe he deserved the death penalty. In Bobby's mind, the death penalty in that case was simply a type of vengeful bloodlust. He wholly believed Taggert responsible for his crimes and wanted him put away for life, but he also wholly believed that Taggert had never intended to kill any of those girls and that intent was what tipped the balance for him as far as what punishment was appropriate.
He looked at Maureen Pagolis' bugging of her husband, and then not moving to act when she realized the wrong man was about to be shot, as ultimately self-serving and irresponsible. For him, right is right, even when it sucks.
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Post by Patcat on Feb 3, 2009 21:37:15 GMT -5
Tjara and outbanks, Wow!
I was a bit confused by Tjara's statement that Goren didn't like Mrs. Pagolis, but after outerbanks comments I understand what Tjara saw. I suspect Goren might have agreed with and liked Mrs. Pagolis, but that doesn't give her a pass when she does the wrong thing.
What is she guilty of? Obviously negligence and wiretapping, but what can she be legally held responsible for? And will her slime ball of a husband suffer any consequences?
Patcat
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Post by outerbankschick on Feb 3, 2009 23:03:34 GMT -5
Maybe George Pagolis won't end up with legal ramifications, but evetually someone, somewhere will get him. What goes around comes around and ol' George has got plenty of it coming around.
I'm not sure how the law reads but one would think that Maureen Pagolis would be legally responsible in some way for not stopping the duel when she knew someone was going to be shot for real. Reckless endangerment, perhaps, or maybe even some sort of manslaughter charge. Illegal wiretapping, too, though I'm not sure how serious a charge that is.
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Post by tjara on Feb 4, 2009 4:39:32 GMT -5
For what it's worth - I can only tell you what Goren says in the dubbed version, which sometimes is different from the original.
Goren not being too fond of Mrs. Pagolis is stated more or less at the beginning. Eames watches the broadcast, then Ross tells her not to let her admiration interfere with her judgement. They walk out into the bullpen, towards Goren. Ross tells Eames how George Pagolis had himself picked up by a private boat and how Maureen stayed until everybody else left. Then Goren chimes in and says something like "she stayed long enough to cry for the camera." His tone is very cynical, which prompts Ross to ask whether he's biased (and from Ross' tone I get the sense that he let's him know not to let it interfere with the investigation) and then Goren replies about her ambitions to become New York's first female mayor. This is why from the start I had the feeling Goren wasn't to fond of her, not particularily because of her policies, but because she's a very ambitious person.
As for the legal consequences, she's definitely in it for illegal wiretapping, and I'd think for some form of involuntary manslaughter charge because she didn't act when she knew someone was in immediate danger. Whatever the charges are, her political career is done.
And OBC, you're right. Bobby wants justice, but not blind revenge. The family in "The Faithful" comes to mind. He convinced the priest to take the plea bargain so his former love interest/mother of his child wouldn't have to be put on the witness stand and essentially ruin her life.
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Post by Patcat on Dec 28, 2010 11:15:46 GMT -5
Bumped for EOTW.
Patcat
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