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Post by MissEllie on Feb 6, 2007 22:18:56 GMT -5
I interpreted it that the husband was the wife's political "albatross", like the definitions listed on page 1:
3. a : something that causes persistent deep concern or anxiety b : something that greatly hinders accomplishment c. fig. [In allusion to Coleridge's Ancient Mariner: see sense 2a quot. 1798.] A source or mark of misfortune, guilt, etc., from which one cannot (easily) be free; a burden or encumbrance.
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Post by Sirenna on Feb 6, 2007 22:22:42 GMT -5
not me, although I'd like to here why you thought this one hit a new low. I loved it more the second time around
I think pressure on all sides; ambition, career, family, wife, public persona were all there and even love too, maybe especially love was pressure and a weight, a burden, an albatross as Reangel's definition implies.
Favourite line: We're detectives. We don't stalk.
so many interesting aspects to discuss in this one.
;D ;D
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Post by trisha on Feb 6, 2007 22:30:44 GMT -5
I interpreted it that the husband was the wife's political "albatross", like the definitions listed on page 1: 3. a : something that causes persistent deep concern or anxiety b : something that greatly hinders accomplishment c. fig. [In allusion to Coleridge's Ancient Mariner: see sense 2a quot. 1798.] A source or mark of misfortune, guilt, etc., from which one cannot (easily) be free; a burden or encumbrance.I agree with that. I think her pride, jealousy, and political ambitions were also albatrosses in her life. How could she just stand there waiting to see her innocent friend get murdered?! She was thinking of how to not implicate herself ... Ack! Poor Eames, she's more disillusioned all the time.
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Post by caseyswife on Feb 6, 2007 22:33:49 GMT -5
Well I personally think this episode was more like the 'old' CI than the new - and I say "Bravo" to that!! So, so, so glad to see the interrogation room again and the sign language bit was great. I could have done without the little snippets of the pedestrians giving their opinions - Faith Yancy was more than able to illustrate that point of view the times they showed her so there was really no need to get the man (or woman) on the street involved. (I am actually wondering if they added those bits in later since this episode was supposedly filmed early and held back - maybe there are scenes dealing with 'TWAH' that no longer applied and were cut??) The Queen song proved very appropriate in the end and if they just HAVE to use a song I would rather hear a classic than some of that techno crap. I would really like to hear why this hit 'a new low' as well, 2011... and BTW, Glen Levet is scotch - good scotch... and Bobby is welcome over for a glass anytime! caseyswife
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Post by MissEllie on Feb 6, 2007 22:36:38 GMT -5
I thought it was interesting to see the different ways Goren and Eames reacted to evidence implicating their "idols". Goren could see through his personal feelings to suspect that Declan Gage could be a killer in Blind Spot, but Eames didn't want to believe her "idol" could have done anything of that nature.
I could have lived without the Faith Yancy bit in its entirety.
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Post by trisha on Feb 6, 2007 22:48:06 GMT -5
I like the Faith Yancy bits only because I hate Nancy Grace soooo much. The little snippets of pedestrians gave it a political poll feel, which was different. Usually the exposition comes in interviews or squad room dialog -- which sometimes feels a little forced. This felt forced in a few places, like we were being beaten over the head with what a bad guy the husband was, but I think that was the point. The wife had to pay attention to those polls and opinions; she had been beaten over the head with them throughout her entire career. ETA: Welcome MissEllie! Sorry I didn't say so earlier
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Post by Patcat on Feb 6, 2007 22:53:04 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I still can't understand why the wife stayed with the husband. And I didn't care for the song at the start. I could also do without the Nancy Grace like reporter--they've gone to the well one too many time on this.
But I agree that this seemed much more like the LOCI of old. I liked the interaction between Goren and Eames--I liked the relatively gently way Goren approached the possibility that the politico was the guilty party, and the way Eames was willing to accept it. (I think she was disillusioned, but not blind.)
I did like the commentaries about the difficulties facing women politicians.
Patcat
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Post by caseyswife on Feb 6, 2007 22:54:12 GMT -5
Great catch on Eames' hero worship, Miss Ellie... that never even occurred to me during the first viewing. And a big welcome to the board form me as well! I am still wondering if the Faith Yancy and pedestrian bits were added to replace scenes that were no longer needed since this episode was pushed back. caseyswife
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2011
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 51
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Post by 2011 on Feb 6, 2007 23:03:14 GMT -5
The episode was SO DULL. Most of them have been this season, apart from Blind Spot. Tru love was awful. Also, I was anticipating this episode for some time now (same with Tru Love) which made it harder to bear.
CI used to be a cut above the rest. The fantastic back stories of the criminals that we get within such a short time, that make us really understand why they did what they did--off the top of my head, Brody's story in A Murderer Among Us, Spencer Durning's in Cold Comfort and Isobel Carniki in But Not Forgotten.
Then, there are the tiny, insignificant legal issues that Goren uses to maximum effect--again, off the top: the morals clause in Poison and the nurse's contract in Enemy Within.
Next, the little things that made Goren so fantastic--the little things that made us go "WOW" at the end of the episode when we realize that he knows so much more than us about the case, which we thought we had solved......like in Art, when he picks up on the one word "woman" as Rudy utters "no man would subject himself to...."
Finally (at least for the moment)--the fantastic interrogations that are followed by angry eruptions and a confession.....like Keith in Baggage and Connie in Sound bodies....
Anyways--that's how I feel. This season, to me, has been so bland and bring--apart from Blind Spot--which was nice, with a creepy confession at the end. I guess the other very probable possibility is that I am not in the required higher intellectual plane to appreciate this season.
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Post by MissEllie on Feb 6, 2007 23:09:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the welcome! I've been lurking for quite a while--like three or four months. LOL
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Post by Sirenna on Feb 6, 2007 23:23:06 GMT -5
This felt forced in a few places, like we were being beaten over the head with what a bad guy the husband was, but I think that was the point. The wife had to pay attention to those polls and opinions Yes, and with what Patcat asked: "How could she stay with such an albatross for so long?" Good point. She seemed to want to be a good senator. She seemed like she had the intellect, the drive and the compassion to actually be a good senator. Then why didn't she listen to the polls, the people she was sworn to represent? Who repeatedly told her to drop him. Even Goren seemed like he couldn't understand why she would want to escort her husband into the squadroom, knowing how the association would damage her career. He was un satisfied, as was I, when all she could say was: "he is my husband." LOVE - that's what I'm thinking. Love in its most dysfunctional, unhealthiest form, when even rape is an expression of passion. Goren quoting his mother underlined this for me: "If she's in it, she must be getting something out of it." Love as a twisted motivator for murder is an enduring theme in LO:ci. In this episode it was really apparent. Poor Davo. He could have been her saviour if only he'd taken another path. But he loved his mom and suffered for her decision to stay with his father as do all the kids in abusive family relationships. On another note one of the things I loved about Goren was that he right away knew, Joe E. Louis was Al Capone's favourite comedian and the one and only guy to implicate the big dog. That is a Gorenism. I also have come to admire The Many Uses of Captain Ross as his episodes unfurl. In this one he plays expert witness who never got the gist of the role reversals. What next, I wonder?
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Post by girlinblack on Feb 6, 2007 23:28:53 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this episode. I thought that it was much better than "Privilege". For starters, I thought that the song at the beginning worked really well, for once. The way that they edited the video footage with the music was excellent. It started off really intense, and I liked that. Usually, I find myself half-ignoring the first sequence and only paying attention when the detectives start appearing.
KE did an excellent job. She is such a talented actress. There are just little things that she does with her eyes and her voice that really make Alex a captivating character. I think that she was exceptional tonight. I liked how Alex was pushy and aggressive about the whole "innocent until proven guilty" principle when it came to her role model. I think there's something very real about that. Who wants to believe that their hero is a fraud?
Oh, and I almost forgot. Did anyone notice that Alex called Bobby, "Goren"? Usually doesn't she just call him, "Bobby"?
VDO-- amazing as usual. There were moments when you could see Goren getting all hyped up, like in the old days. However, I'm really getting sick of this whole, he's not doing well because he's concerned about his mother thing... I want the old Goren back 100%. I want to see Bobby pinning people up against walls, looking all emotionally stable, and getting really into interrogating the criminals again.
Overall, I really liked the episode. I thought that it was worth the wait. They did a nice job. There was a lot to the story, and just when I thought I had it figured out, they through in a curve-ball to keep me interested. I also liked how they filmed it in different places. It seemed like there were a lot of new locations. When the task force (at least, I think that's what you call it) broke into the apartment, that was intense, and I thought that scene was well done.
G&E- Well, we didn't really get any carry over from "The War at Home", but I did like their little scene in the bar. I liked the way Goren was looking at her... he was really analyzing her response. I think he really *cared* about how she felt. He wasn't trying to step on her toes or rip apart her idol. He was just trying to do what was right.
My favorite season of CI is still the very first season. I think that this season started out excellent, and went on great, up until "Masquerade". I wasn't crazy about that episode, but I loved the "War at Home". "Privilege", I wasn't crazy about... and tonight, I thought it was great. At the same time, I have to say that I thought "Blind-spot" and "Siren Call" were better.
Ultimately, I was just happy to see Goren and Eames back in a new episode! I'm not crazy about Logan and Wheeler, but next weeks preview looked amazing. I'll probably end up watching it. They are starting to grow on me.
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Post by caseyswife on Feb 6, 2007 23:36:01 GMT -5
I guess the other very probable possibility is that I am not in the required higher intellectual plane to appreciate this season. Well, I can say that is without a doubt NOT the case, 2011. Your points are as valid and welcomed as anyone else's here and I certainly don't think one's intellectual plane has a darned thing to do with it. Well said on all counts - and I can't even disagree with most of them. But comparing this episode to the others in this season of enLEIGHTenment, this one has to be near the top of the list, wouldn't you agree? I mean, it can't be worse than Country Crossover for goodness sakes! caseyswife
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Post by Sirenna on Feb 6, 2007 23:37:42 GMT -5
welcome to the site, Girlinblack (great avatars btw) and Missellie! I agree, Kathryn's expression in the bar scene when Goren asked her if they were all right was perfectly timed. She looked at first and fleetingly really happy that he'd asked, and then ready to forgive and forget. But her nature not being an impulsive one (and his being way too impulsive sometimes) held her back until she looked a bit unsure and ended saying fervently, "I hope so." He just looked relieved and then a bit worried but then they were interrupted by the coat check girl. That two actors can imbue what amounts to a 30-second scene with that much action says mountains about their skills. PS. 2011 you don't have to appreciate it. You can fervently hate it. It's a free country. You don't need to make apologies for your intellect either. ..
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Post by Techguy on Feb 6, 2007 23:41:35 GMT -5
This is second favorite Goren/Eames Season 6 episode so far (after "Masquerade"), if for no other reason than Goren's back to detecting rather than angsting. Sure, I had this one figured out the minute the limo driver was shown glowering and scowling while Mr. and Mrs. Dysfunctional argued in the back seat. And some of the plot elements, such as the cell phone used to make incriminating phone calls and planting the murder weapon on Mr. Slimeball came across like retreads from "Blind Spot." Maybe I was just too pleased to see and hear Goren act, well, normal I was ready to excuse just about anything.
I agree the acting was strong, and I also feel the Faith Yancey elements and citizen-on-the-street interviews give the look and feel of real life goings on in the lives of the sleazy and famous.
I also was WTF with the opening music, but in retrospect, with Mrs. Pagolis knowing what she knew and doing nothing to prevent it because she was more concerned with not incriminating herself, it makes more sense. Mr. Pagolis might be a slimeball, but Mrs. Pagolis is a piece of work to stand idly by while her mentor and best friend is murdered. In this respect, she is very much like the Ancient Mariner who killed an albatross and brought down tragedy on his ship and crew. By allowing the death of the judge in place of her albatross husband, Mrs. Pagolis sank the ship of her campaign and finds herself an accessory to murder before the fact.
And as both Goren and Eames have discovered this season, idol worship is a risky and tentative undertaking, especially when the idols have feet--and hearts--of clay.
ETA: Thank goodness for a well-placed towel at just the right moment, or I would have been Eeew!
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