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Post by sobergal95 on Feb 6, 2007 23:42:21 GMT -5
The music video thing needs to be done with NOW. It worked in "Blasters", but not in "Privilege" or this one. Ok, they tried it, it is better than the stalker cam, but enough already. The song was in the movie "Gross Pointe Blank" so it reminded me of that movie. I guess I need to re-watch but I also was mostly underwhelmed by this episode. I did think it was kinda cool that Ross and his kids were there, reminds me of the kind of "forced family fun" my family subjected us to in our youth. I'm sure the kids got a bigger kick out of this version than was intended. I got a thrill watching SVU after this episode: my buddy Harvey from "Unrequited" had a small part! ;D
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Post by Sirenna on Feb 6, 2007 23:53:36 GMT -5
Yeah, the music is definately always jarring for the newness of the device. Come to think of it, it's jarring for the device of the device. (Makes me immediately suspicious of Mr. Leight's motives. ) I still think it worked here although not at the beginning - only in retrospect at the end. At least it wasn't incongrous like the last time in "Privilege". Many WTFs for that one. It seemed to be added as an after thought and the rest of the show, the next forty-two minutes or so went along nicely without it, thank you. Great post techguy. I saw a sadness and a tragedy in the whole thing. So much was lost for the sake of a brambly circumstance, that being the marriage of the senator and the judge. How much will and choice did each character exercise? None of the characters except for the husband struck me as malicious. Davo's motives were tied up with his mother not being able to leave an abusive relationship as much as it was hate for the Senator's husband. The senator seemed to be less constrained by her work role than she was by her lack of strength against her husband, although an equal case could be made that she was more worried about the fallout of divorce on her career. Hmm I need to think about all this some more. I need to think about that part because will and choice would have sent this story in a completely different direction. This episode though is making me think after the episode is over. I've missed that! ;D
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Post by mikeyrocks on Feb 7, 2007 1:11:25 GMT -5
I agree with what many others have said - best G/E episode of season 6!!
Wonderful storyline - Terrific performances - this one had it all!!
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Post by Metella on Feb 7, 2007 8:30:03 GMT -5
I agree that this episode was missing the depth to many of those things you called out 2011 - however - like TechGuy - this season has not only missed those things - it has added other atrocious things .... so the lack of the nasty stuff - had me putting this episode at the top of the whole season's episodes.
I am still hollow as to Davo, the wife and the husbands depth of "mental illness" for lack of a better term - I don't see people in their positions having to feel that level of being trapped - so while I really liked this episode in comparision with Season 6 - I think it had large gaps on the "intent" section this show is supposed to excell at.
By the way - I think the husband dropped a big hint as to why she stayed with him - she was fooled into thinking that if she left him & he exposed how she got her funding (his shady dealings) that her career would be over ..... her albatross was her past decision & actually all the polls were showing her that the world KNEW and didn't care - they wanted her to move on. My take on it anyway.
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on Feb 7, 2007 9:02:56 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts everyone -- I loved it. It was a very great treat when I finally got home after midnight -- having ushered a 4 freaking hour Greatful Dead tribute band concert to roll the vhs recorder back and spend an hour on this episode.
I'll still mulling the million layers, and want to rewatch it sometime when I'm more awake...
but I did love that this one was Eames' blind spot to a point, and there are some wonderful undercurrents in the scene at the bar...
Such worlds of unspoken stuff after Goren's "she should have left him" between Eames and Goren and allusion to their partnership. Loved the subtlety of that... And also, while most of it was case related it was nice to see G/E walking and talking and discussing the issues...
Also it was nice to see a thorny episode where the husband is unethical and immoral, but not exactly doing anything illegal ... Reminded me very much of Magnificat. Sometimes the endings get a little too neat and tidy for me. A little more ambiguity to ponder is a fun thing!
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Post by Sirenna on Feb 7, 2007 9:07:53 GMT -5
Yes, I'm not sure whether she stayed because he was blackmailing her or whether she just couldn't bring herself to leave him. When he brought up the matter of the checks, she said to him that she hadn't done anything wrong. I think even if the checks were investigated and found to be shady, the voting public might still have forgiven that. They already seemed to know she was married to a shady guy. It wouldn't be a surprise.
They seemed who played head games with each other 24 hours a day. He seemed to instigate it and she seemed more reactive. But she was always an enabler. She made lots of excuses for staying, loyalty, the kids, fear of reprisal, maybe he'll change, all that sort of thing. All those scenes contained the intent thread that I agree has been missing from many of the episodes lately.
The questions it brought up for me was: Why did she stay? Would her children have suffered more or less from a divorce? Was she forced or willing in the alluded to sex-scene? Why did Davo feel the need to rescue her by murdering her husband? Why didn't she speak up when the duel was about to begin? Why didn't her husband exit out of the duel rather than sacrifice his friend?
Some of the questions can be explained with straight exposition from the episodes but some, maybe the same scenes, I think, could be viewed in light of ( Alert: pompous word coming up) subtext
I mean tons of women (and men) withstand abusive relationships everyday and often the abuse is mental. If there are gradients of abuse, if such a thing exists, then violence is at the top, mental degrogatory abuse might be next and then there is this relationship. They just seemed to engage in water torture or thousand tiny cuts that got bigger and bigger as time went on. Again it begs the question of why she, and others like her wouldn't leave.
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Post by MissEllie on Feb 7, 2007 9:23:37 GMT -5
After thinking overnight about it, it was interesting how they played the lady politico championing the causes of victims to the public, and yet when she had the opportunity to save someone who was totally innocent, her personal friend and mentor, she stood and did nothing because doing so would implicate her and ruin her politically. It showed her true colors and how she was willing to use people for her own gain.
If I were getting into her head, I think also she wanted to keep herself in the marriage because it placed her in a "victim" position and she felt she could leverage that to her advantage with the voters. I felt like she had the upper hand in the marriage with the taping of his activities, etc. , and controlling the publicity. Didn't Goren/Eames mention the impeccable timing of the publicity of his shady activities and how they correlated with her attempts to advance politically?
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Post by DonnaJo on Feb 7, 2007 9:24:31 GMT -5
I may be cynical, but I felt that the use & choice of music in the initial scene was a lure to get viewers to stay tuned in to the episode. As someone who doesn't need enticement to stick with CI, I found the choice annoying.
I agree with sobergal about Ross' attempt at "family fun" with his kids. (great casting of the older son btw, same looks & sardonic expression as his dad.) Poor guy, trying to get them to love history like he does. I'm sure they would have much preferred going to a Ranger game. What's next, a trip to Colonial Willliamsburg?
REALLY wanted to see a "duel" between Goren & Ross concerning who knows more about American History. Surprised they didn't go there. Ross was easy on Goren in this ep, but gave Eames a little jab for a change by warning her to not let her feelings get in the way of her judgement.
Finally, (for now) loved seeing Goren back to knowing things most people don't - American sign language, make & model of the only sniper rifle that could have made the shot, etc.. Liked how he knew the weapon was behind the faux radiator. Also loved his exchange with the young woman weapons expert from CSU. What a couple they would make!
Have to re-watch for more tidbits. And there are plenty. Which, for me, makes it a good episode.
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Post by Sirenna on Feb 7, 2007 9:50:24 GMT -5
goren didn't do as much unravelling and unpicking of the brain in this one. G and E were more like gumshoes in this one; asking the questions and getting the answers. The story just sort of unfurled the crime, modus and killer to us which I didn't mind at all.
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Post by girlinblack on Feb 7, 2007 9:52:02 GMT -5
thanks, Sirenna & janethyland! DonnaJo- I agree with what you've said. This episode has a lot to it. I'm looking forward to re-watching my tape. I'm a history major, so I must say that I did enjoy the whole reenactment skit in the beginning. Although, I thought that it was kind of cheesy that Ross just happened to be there. I rolled my eyes a little at that point. I've been thinking about CI, these last couple episodes, and what others have said. I've decided that we will probably get season 7 with Goren and Eames, but I think that it will be their last. I feel like the intensity is dwindling. Goren just doesn't seem to be the same Goren anymore. I feel like GE have really aged- and I'm not really talking physically. I'm not really concerned as much with their appearance, as I am with this whole intensity thing. Where's the running, where's the screaming, where's the wild interrogrations,... we've lost something this year. Maybe I'm wrong, *which I hope*, but it seems like LW's episodes, while I prefer GE, have been the more "intense" and dramatic ones... I mean lately, at least. The beginning of this season, as I've said before, completely different story. After those first two episodes, I feel like somethings been very off. I know Goren's upset about his mother, but I'd really like the "old" Goren back now. He seems to have lost some of his passion for work. Like I said earlier, I liked last night's episode, but it still wasn't the best compared to what they've done in the past. IDK, if this makes any sense, I'm just hoping that they bring things up a couple of notches in the future. I want to be wrong.
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mimi
Detective
Posts: 231
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Post by mimi on Feb 7, 2007 10:02:33 GMT -5
A perfect quote that state my view on this season: We're good for both best and worse; but it's for the worse that we're the best.
Maybe this episode was the best of the worse, but it was still a boring story.
No entry into the criminal mind; no whydunnit (even the whodunnit was botched); no Goren showing his extensive knowledge, which can be annoying but watching him "investigate" week after week makes him... Logan without the mordant.
I liked the more complex stories, but was in favor of more simpler way of telling them if the drive was still there. Oversimplification kills the interest. If you can figure out everything five minutes into the episode...what's the point of watching a cop show and more so a cop show focusing on the criminal mind?
Positive element was how the Albatross' character was written and portayed. A being completely devoid of empathy, feeling or values. He seems like a character you would see in super hero movie. One of the best villains. Yet, to make a great villain shine; you need the great dispenser of justice. Goren's wasn't written nor portrayed in a way to tackle this villain.
The only great line he got was the "Al Capone" reply and even then Pagonis was entirely in control of the scene.
...still thinking of another positive element. Nope none are coming to mind.
Some stated that the interaction between Eames and Goren was great. It has been used and abused already. Eames, again, gave up her instinct and her ability to lead a case in favor of first Ross then Goren.
In fact, the episode was quite insulting. Women are still presented as slave to their feelings and therefore can't be trusted to run for office or to objectively run a investigation!
I rest my case!!!!
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Post by madger on Feb 7, 2007 11:13:25 GMT -5
Well, with only one viewing I'm not ready to cast my vote yet. What's with the music-video beginnings? CSI has done it to death, try something original, and no, stalker cam isn't original either. I so miss Mr. Balcer At least we got a criminal intentish episode, what a relief, no reference to Mom, her being Goren's albatross, I was surprised, is WL learning subtlety? I'm dreading the brother epi. Goren's hair, do something with it, I wanted to grab him and try a comb on it or something. Maybe hold it down with the tie clip? it's headed in that direction anyway. I should get back to work, bleh, Ill have to re watch tonight, not past my bed-time.
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2011
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 51
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Post by 2011 on Feb 7, 2007 12:03:06 GMT -5
My sincere thanks to caseyswife and janethyland--your comments made me feel a bit better. And I agree a lot with mimi's comments above--the story was SO SIMPLE. When I saw that one of the "contract killers" just came in for questioning, I just couldn't take it The story doesn't have to be insanely complicated like Proud Flesh, but at least keep us engaged for a while.... They could've done more with Davo's intent--his mother etc. Reminded me of Maltese Cross, where I felt the story just hit a horrible anticlimax at the end..... I think the main reason the episode upset me was because I was really looking forward to it--and the let down hit me hard. In retrospect, it does ring true that compared to other episodes this season, this is OK. Nothing can be as bad as Tru Love. Oh well.....can't wait for Criminal Minds tonight.
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Post by nonmanis on Feb 7, 2007 12:54:42 GMT -5
The Albatross episode aired on 2-6-2007 on NBC in California Kind of competed with USA who had another LOCI at 8.30 PM. NBC aired the episode at 9.00 pm Pacific time. So had to skip back and forth to see both. Albatross was kind of different,. Goren asking Eames if they were alright But overall it was good acting again and a good story. nonmanis
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Post by MissEllie on Feb 7, 2007 12:54:44 GMT -5
I was just thinking about Mark Consuelos' unnecessary appearance as the US attorney. His 10-second spot was nothing more than eye candy and revealed no more than they could have done with a phone call to one of the detectives or could have been disclosed through some other device. I just thought it didn't really add anything and, in fact, was a distraction.
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