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Post by Summerfield on Apr 6, 2007 21:56:46 GMT -5
Whoops! Big time continuity faux pas. When Eames received the confirmation on the 9mm Glock registered to Strauss, the date on the text message read, "March 9th"! Clearly, eight days after "wall street" confessed to celebrating St. Patrick's day with his buddies.
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Post by Techguy on Apr 6, 2007 22:10:38 GMT -5
NicoleMarie, yes you got it right about exactly what it is about Goren's signing abilities that strain credibility for me. And thanks for telling us Tommy's final signing words to Malia, which again only underscores how "Silencer" began with an intriguing premise and then fell flat in its execution. Why bother delving into sign language and not follow through to completion so non-signing viewers can understand how and why Goren is doing what he's doing and what Tommy is saying to Malia? There was, and still are, too many holes in "Silencer" for me to fully appreciate it.
The more I think about Eames and Peter, the more I don't see them as a couple, at least not in the immediate future. I don't see her as fully recovered from her kidnapping, which has strained her relationship with Goren for a huge chunk of time this season. If she's not ready or able to re-connect with her long time professional partner, I don't see her as being ready for a romantic relationship. Peter's ambivalence and conflict about his role as a cop and advocate for the deaf suggests he's nowhere near as strong as he would have to be to be for Eames to consider a potential romantic partner. Which is why I'm shaking my head at Ross saying to her that Peter seems like a nice guy. As her superior, Ross would be very aware of the difficulties she's had coping with the aftermath of her kidnapping. That entire scene with Ross and Eames just doesn't strike the right note, and seems too awkward and misplaced.
Not only was the ADA extremely annoying, so was Dr. Strauss the doctor who was being sued for malpractice. Their whining and complaining turned me off so completely I didn't care much about them or why they they were acting the way they did. For the ADA to be assigned the case when she had such deep personal involvement as the fiancee of the murdered doctor doesn't make sense. And the doctor being sued is so unlikeable and ridiculously arrogant, he comes across as a one dimensional caricature. The only really interesting, fully realized characters in "Silencer" are the deaf, and are the only elements that made this episode worthwhile for me. Double kudos to them.
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Post by Summerfield on Apr 6, 2007 22:24:15 GMT -5
Pardon me, but I don't recall the ADA being "assigned" to the case. She was there because of her relationship to the murder victim.
As for Strauss, he was the typical red herring. Signing by Goren? He's smart. It's conceivable he grasped the ability to sign through observation. His signing was slow and methodical enough for me to believe he's never signed before.
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Post by Techguy on Apr 6, 2007 22:42:19 GMT -5
Assigned or not, the ADA was so over the top she was beyond annoying. And as a red herring Dr. Strauss stunk up the joint like a fish left out in the July noon day sun.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Apr 6, 2007 22:48:03 GMT -5
I think Mimi and Techguy pointed out the single biggest flaw of the episode - that people who can sign and aware of deaf culture are the only ones who will truly "get" it. It's hard for me to decide on my own. I mostly gave it the A in the poll simply because of my friend's glowing review bu, I think she was able to see many, many things that clueless people like me and others weren't able to.
DonnaJo,
I'm curious about Eames. So much is made of Gorens' issues but I'm more focused on her. I'm so used to him being the center of attention and it seems like we're being teased with Eames! I want her issues to be resolved just as much as I want Gorens' resolved.
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Post by Metella on Apr 7, 2007 6:30:03 GMT -5
see, I look at the lack of "typical" Goren facial expressions as a pointed failure of VDO; I can't see that so complete & long a run of flatline-ness in this once animated part of Goren can be something planned if it has not been address - taking too many sleeping pills or whatever - something so disperate from the "old" Goren DOES need to be addressed briefly if it is planned. & I just see it as VDO changing. I still think his acting of the Goren character is fine - so don't address me on that. I think the problems I am having with this season is from the other end of the camera - I just don't think this is something VDO is "planning" to show in the Goren character.
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 7, 2007 7:50:53 GMT -5
DonnaJo, I'm curious about Eames. So much is made of Gorens' issues but I'm more focused on her. I'm so used to him being the center of attention and it seems like we're being teased with Eames! I want her issues to be resolved just as much as I want Gorens' resolved. I don't agree with those who see Peter as a weak, ambivalent character who couldn't handle Eames. I saw a man who was thrust into an unfamiliar aspect of his job, an emotional situation that really hit home for him personally . He IS a nice guy, as Ross pointed out to her. And perhaps that's what she needs right now to help her get over her trauma. She doesn't need a man to be tough with her or cure her. Just someone who will be there to listen, so she can help herself. I believe that Ross identified this need in Eames right now, and that was why he was encouraging her to look at Peter in more than strickly a professional light. Maybe it was icky & inappropriate, but it showed a caring side to him that we've seen before. Maybe this wouldn't lead to a long term relationship, but right now Eames' needs someone. She can't do this by herself. And no one else is stepping up, or can.
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Post by Metella on Apr 7, 2007 11:41:47 GMT -5
I don't see any of the Eames moves as stemming from her kidnapping - but I am often not intune with that sort of thing. Am I reading some of these comments to mean that this connection is more overt ? Have I missed clues? Please fill me in on what aspects are leading to this conclusion as I am out of sync with most of these comments - I feel like I missed a whole episode
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 7, 2007 12:37:49 GMT -5
Metella, The Peter/Eames connection is not overt for other shows, but certaintly overt for CI. As an example:The initial scene when Eames meets Peter & flusters while taking off her latex glove; Peter calling her Alexandra; the Goren look of concern/annoyance at Eames' empty desk; the "leave me out of this" when Goren & Peter argue.... to me, this is all a big deal in the CI world. Aldso, the TVGuide blurb for this episode specifically mentions that an attractive NYPD member would be showing Eames special attention. So it was intentional (i.e. in the script to show there was an interest, at least on his part)
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Post by Sirenna on Apr 7, 2007 13:22:26 GMT -5
This episode was so-so. Not enough personality in it to make it really as good as it could have been. Interesting to see the issues faced in a deaf community though. That part seemed to ring true. Goren could have been so much more expressive here. I read the posts about Vincent making a deliberate choice to act Goren stressed-out but I agree with SarahIvy. Watching him makes me feel tired. The thing is he could have been the kind of guy whose mum is dying, partner kidnapped, tie pin being bi-polar but still have been expressive as he signed and interacted with people. Remember the Chinese lady in Chinoiserie who laughed saying: "Goren spoke Chinese like her little dog?" Goren is the one guy in the room who could have signed with twitchy personality even if it was amateurish. I thought there was a lot of metaphor about silence, ostracization, communicating, understanding and tolerating but it was just a little too LOUD for me. Heavy-handed in it's execution. I like subtlety. I get the potato silencer. Did we need it twice for example? I guess I also want to know who was the murderer? He didn't seem to stand out as a character for me. All that just so the kid wouldn't lose his girlfriend? Now that seemed to stretch my credibility. Why didn't he just tell her he didn't want her to have the operation? I think it is a sloppy writer's out to paint him as sympathetic murderer because of his trauma during childhood. John in Want was much more sympathetic a character yet still satisfyingly evil. CI used to be show that got personal. We got into the heart and mind of the criminal from the teaser and by the time the aria rolled around, it was just Goren and the criminal with the visceral ripping away of the layers, revealing the naked why of what happened. Now we start with the crime and, over the next forty-six minutes we're giving bricks as if laying a house. It's not as emotionally gripping for the viewer to unravel the crime that way and dare I say it, a bit dry at times. (It's also like so much of what's already out there like Criminal Minds or Numb3rs) I miss that hard work that went along with being a CI viewer. That being said I'd still say this was one of the better episodes of the season. (And yes, I agree Vincent looks terrific in promo pics these days )
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Post by ragincajun on Apr 7, 2007 13:34:56 GMT -5
Techguy, I find Goren and Eames were strained since TWAH, not since her abduction. I don't think she blamed Goren for her abduction, Goren might have blamed himself. But in TWAH after his desk swiping scene and telling her to back off, she has treated him differently ever since.
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Post by Techguy on Apr 7, 2007 15:03:54 GMT -5
Ragincajun, I see Goren and Eames strained as early as "Siren Call." When Goren mentions his mother's lymphoma, Eames has to ask if it's true. It's already clear he hasn't been completely open with her, and so by the time of TWAH's fireworks, their relationship is vague at best, bordering on bristly.
I also have been disturbed by the insertion of scenes in some episodes that serve no purpose except to perpetuate the melodrama and angst with little regard for the Criminal Intent component of CI. It isn't interesting to me to see Goren and Eames asking one another if they're all right, it isn't interesting to see them ordering drinks in a bar just so we would know what the characters' drinks of choice are.
It isn't interesting to introduce a character like Peter in "Silencer" just so Eames could say something like "Don't put me in the middle" and have Ross say something inane about how he seems to be a nice guy. In "Silencer" CI had the opportunity, with a large deaf cast, to do and say something special but instead dropped the opportunity like a hot potato (no pun about Irish silencers intended) just to continue feeding the distracting melodrama. The story about the deaf should have been front and center, just as the story about the murdered vet from Iraq should have been front and center in TWAH. By discarding or ignoring the real story, the end result is what should have been extraordinary turns out to be ordinary at best as "Silencer" is, or completely offensive at worst as TWAH is to me.
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mimi
Detective
Posts: 231
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Post by mimi on Apr 7, 2007 16:55:58 GMT -5
Ouch!!
I tought the same thing, but in retrospect, taking VDO's own comment about juggling balls; I believe the third ball was too much for him to handle.
The signing was accurate; the voice tone was also accurate, but the face showed deep concentration: "Must...not...mess...up...my signs!"
When/if VDO couldn't remember his "spoken" lines, he could always pause and think about it. I believe it when someone (can't remember who) stated that he thought Goren's speech pattern was a result of VDO trying to remember his lines. Doesn't work when you're signing though!
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Post by hannah on Apr 7, 2007 17:47:19 GMT -5
Metella, The Peter/Eames connection is not overt for other shows, but certaintly overt for CI. As an example:The initial scene when Eames meets Peter & flusters while taking off her latex glove; Peter calling her Alexandra; the Goren look of concern/annoyance at Eames' empty desk; the "leave me out of this" when Goren & Peter argue.... to me, this is all a big deal in the CI world. Aldso, the TVGuide blurb for this episode specifically mentions that an attractive NYPD member would be showing Eames special attention. So it was intentional (i.e. in the script to show there was an interest, at least on his part) I don't think having Peter as a love interest is a big deal for CI. I mean how many has Goren had so far? Goren: too many for CI. Eames: 1. And I doubt he'll come back, but I think she'll mention something about him. Or maybe Goren will ask? Or the Captain?
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doctorj
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 92
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Post by doctorj on Apr 7, 2007 20:24:38 GMT -5
Goren could have been so much more expressive here. I read the posts about Vincent making a deliberate choice to act Goren stressed-out but I agree with SarahIvy. Watching him makes me feel tired. agreed -- i felt tired watching him. was this the point? or is VDO trying to make us feel sick of goren so we won't riot when he makes his exit? i wonder.
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