How Real Detectives React to Goren

[trisha]

Sirenna said:

He spent some time at Oxford but dropped out due to his mom's illness.

Huh? Frankly, Shirley, that looks to me like an assumption dressed up as a fact We don't know what he was doing at Oxford, or even if he was there. He may very well have read the brochure in the elevator, just like Nicole suggested. If he was there, and he was "chasing coeds," isn't it plausible that he was chasing them for committing crimes? Of coarse, he may have been trying to get laid, too, but that also doesn't mean he was taking classes, or if he was, that he dropped out. We won't really know until he says so, and that seems unlikely to me. Until then, lets at least keep an open mind about it!

[huntsy]

Thank You Sirenna.

[Patcat]

Well, Goren might have received a lot of his education while in the Army. The Army can be quite generous in providing education to bright candidates--something Goren probably was. One of those stops might have been at Oxford, not necessarily for a regular class at the University, but perhaps for a summer session or such. It's not something that I think Goren would lie about--it's too easily checked for one thing.

Patcat

[Sirenna]

Who's Shirley?!

As for your comment: "It looks like an assumption dressed up as a fact. " You could be right about that.

I still think he did spend some time at Oxford studying. The questions are what was he doing (apart from chasing coeds) and how long was he there. I don't think he would have lied about this to Nicole because it wouldnt have furthered the investigation or added anything to the plot to say he was there if it were not true. In other words, it's a needless complication to his character unless it's there to embellish his character. If it were not true, then he could have said to her that he researched up on Oxford because he knew she came from there and that's what detectives do.

[janetcatbird]

I don't know enough about the army or police forces to hazard a guess as to Goren's experience. Hey, I could post my dissertation about Goren's backstory from the old board if anyone's interested (and now Trisha is reaching for the eyedrops, if not something heavy to throw at the computer screen!). I know that Hereford near the Welsh border is a site for a lot of SAS (British special forces groups) training, I'm guessing American military will do swaps with the Brits for training on occassion. I dunno where Oxford is, but perhaps if there was an army base nearby Goren arranged to take some classes in his spare time. So, even if he doesn't have the parchment, he's got research and general interest to do some reading even outside of a formal classroom.

PS: Observer! Good to see you again, everything alright?#nosmileys

[Metella]

I'm reaching for the dart gun to shoot a tranc in this horse...... but of course, it is a phoenix horse that I have grown fond of.

I think boy Goren wanted to get away from the family dynamics .... testing into the officer's intelligence corps (I took the testings in 1985, but had a heart murmer & got kicked) and started his career a rank above the norm anyway ..... sure 20 years gives you a good retirement, but your rank gets you something even at 15 ... so that is my saddle on this horse, Shirley !!!!

[NikkiGreen]

The poor horse!

[Metella]

tranc Nikkie, just a tranc

[trisha]

Sirenna, he said he "spent a few weeks there, chasing coeds."

I guess it's possible that "a few weeks" could be a modest way of saying a semester. I agree with you that he was certainly there, and that there would be no point in lying to her. On that note, why not just say he took classes there, if that was the point he was getting at? He wanted her to notice him for the intelligent man he is, or he never would have alluded to Parson's Pleasure in the first place. But, Nicole denied him this by suggesting he must have read about it in a brochure.

[Sirenna]

See, I could never quite buy that Goren was attracted to her and that scene was proof of it. I did see chemistry there but more antagonistic than flirtatious on both their sides. I don't think his point was to establish why he'd been there as much as it was to establish exactly what she had been doing there. Telling her he knew Oxford, however superficially, would establish a rapport, and also take their jousting to a more detailed level. She could only lie about certain areas, other's she would have to step over more carefully.

[janetcatbird]

I've never seen Goren as one to lie in order to make himself look good. Of course he'd fudge and hem to try and trip up a suspect, but not in that way. If anything, he tries to make himself seem dumb, so they won't view him as a threat. Overconfident people make mistakes, so it's better that suspects not realize that "that big detective is smarter than you think." Remember "Zoonotic"? Or even "Badge", the thick accent to seem more of a thug than anything else.

[Patcat]

I post on too many lists, sometimes, so I apologize if I've mentioned this already--but I'm reading this excellent book, BLUE BLOOD, by Edward Conlon. Mr. Conlon is a NYPD detective and a splendid writer. His background is interesting--his father was a FBI agent, and there are several NYPD men among his family. He also went to Harvard and graduated with an English degree. After a variety of jobs, including a stint as a social worker, he entered the NYPD Academy at 29 or 30. He finally made detective at 39, after stints as a housing cop (working the public housing) and in Narcotics as a plainsclothes cop.

He notes at least one case where an individual got their gold shield (became a detective) within a year of graduating from the academy. This was a combination of someone who clearly was meant to be a detective and who got a lot of attention for a particular case.

It's a terrific book, by the way, heartbreaking, funny, and very wise, sometimes within the same paragraph.
And he's a wonderful writer. The jacket photo makes him look like a cross between Mr. D'Onofrio and Chris Noth (ok, more like Mr. Noth).

Pat

[trisha]

It's nice to have confirmation that it is at least it's possible to make detective that fast. I have seen that book in stores and even read the dust jacket, but haven't added it to my reading list yet. I think I may now, though.

[Metella]

That was what I thought the L&O God had done ....

full 20 years in the military - back home near mom and in the place he grew up in - hey, it's nice to be home, eh?

Then he had to do something & that moral ramrod pounded up his butt makes him decide it has to "help" people ...... so he goes for cop, building on his profiling background .... he does such a bang up job on some high & mighty kidnapping that the mayor says he needs to be a dectecive NOW.

[janetcatbird]

Yeah, I said something about his Mom on another board. Probably one reason he's stayed in NY is to be with her while she's sick, easier to get to the home for those weekend visits and to call. He does have a sense of duty and obligation--besides, after what dear old dad pulled he wasn't about to act like a jerk. Has he ever mentioned growing up in New York? It would make sense, I mean, they probably would want the mother as close to home as possible.