|
Post by DonnaJo on Aug 11, 2007 10:17:27 GMT -5
What if uncle Mark is also Frank's Dad? Wouldn't that be something. LOL. ragin, don't give the writer's any ideas. ;D If looks mean anything, Brady isn't anyone's father, least of all Goren's. Could two men look less alike? I remember us posting way back when we found out Rita Moreno was playing Frances Goren, that Bobby must look like his Dad, because he sure doesn't look like his Mom. Now what? He looks like his great granddaddy? Techguy, I too watched a bit of the show last evening (and I have it DVR'd, so you're not alone). Something new hit me about the scene in the car between Goren & Eames. I was struck by what was either the stupidity or calculated cruelty of Frank . He knows Eames isn't Bobby's girlfriend, yet he tells that to his mother? After all these years, doesn't he knows what her reaction will be. So, is he trying to start trouble, put Bobby in a difficult situation so he, Frank, looks good? Or did Frank just mention Eames in passing & Frances jumped on it? Any thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by Patcat on Aug 11, 2007 11:35:21 GMT -5
The charitable way to view Frank, I think, is that he's too befuddled by his addictions to know what's going on around him to view it clearly. Or that he sees things the way he wants to see them. So, since he sees Eames as Bobby's girlfriend, she's Bobby's girlfriend. But I certainly wouldn't dismiss your idea, Donnajo.
Tony Goldwyn does look more like Roy Scheider than Vincent D'Onofrio does....so....
Patcat
|
|
|
Post by ragincajun on Aug 11, 2007 12:57:24 GMT -5
What if uncle Mark is also Frank's Dad? Wouldn't that be something. Something new hit me about the scene in the car between Goren & Eames. I was struck by what was either the stupidity or calculated cruelty of Frank . He knows Eames isn't Bobby's girlfriend, yet he tells that to his mother? After all these years, doesn't he knows what her reaction will be. So, is he trying to start trouble, put Bobby in a difficult situation so he, Frank, looks good? Or did Frank just mention Eames in passing & Frances jumped on it? Any thoughts? Probably, Just as Mom gives Bobby a hard time and praises Frank when Frank isn't around, maybe mom praises Bobby and was giving Frank a hard time when Bobby wasn't around. So to get Mom off his case, he turned the tables and asked Mom about Bobby's girlfriend if she had met her, maybe knowing Bobby wouldn't have brought his partner from work there. Knowing mom would then jump back to Bobby and lay off him.
|
|
|
Post by DonnaJo on Aug 11, 2007 13:01:10 GMT -5
Ragin, It's obvious you have kids.
|
|
|
Post by diablodeblanco on Aug 11, 2007 13:41:37 GMT -5
I think Frank intentionally told his mother that Bobby had a girlfriend (Eames). He knew very well what the relationship was between Eames and Bobby. I think the motivation was to stir Frances up and hope for a little anger from her towards Bobby with the end result being that Frank comes out of it looking good. I still believe Frank's reason for being there was self serving. He's looking for $$. Perhaps if he looks like the good son, it would work out to his benefit. Frank even went so far as to inquire about "mom's affairs being in order". That was a fishing expedition for information on a possible estate. Even though both men are adults there are still games that can be played and I believe Frank was playing one. Pitting Frances' anger or insecurity against Bobby.
|
|
|
Post by diablodeblanco on Aug 11, 2007 13:45:21 GMT -5
I watched Endgame last night. The scene between Frances and Bobby where she admits she didn't know which man fathered him was awesome. It was an excellent example of two fine actors playing off each other and making something memorable happen. Emmy worthy......
|
|
|
Post by ragincajun on Aug 11, 2007 14:26:39 GMT -5
Ragin, It's obvious you have kids. lol, yes and a MOM,
|
|
|
Post by musicwench on Aug 11, 2007 14:37:58 GMT -5
Techguy, I too watched a bit of the show last evening (and I have it DVR'd, so you're not alone). Something new hit me about the scene in the car between Goren & Eames. I was struck by what was either the stupidity or calculated cruelty of Frank . He knows Eames isn't Bobby's girlfriend, yet he tells that to his mother? After all these years, doesn't he knows what her reaction will be. So, is he trying to start trouble, put Bobby in a difficult situation so he, Frank, looks good? Or did Frank just mention Eames in passing & Frances jumped on it? Any thoughts? Interesting thoughts about Frank. I just never know with him what his true motives are. I went back to watch the Brother's Keeper scene where Frank asks why Bobby hasn't married "his partner" yet and Bobby does his embarrassed thing and says "she' not that kind of partner" and just goes on to something else and the expression on Frank's face looks like he's confused. I assumed he either didn't quite understand what Bobby meant and it was brushed aside so quickly by Bobby that perhaps Frank is still under the impression that Eames is his girlfriend. He did have a confused look on his face and all things considered, the whole thing could have gone right over his head. It is plausible that Frank is playing games here but from my observations, confusion is the better explanation.
|
|
|
Post by Cassie on Aug 11, 2007 14:42:08 GMT -5
yeah.... I don't think Frank is malicious, maybe just his own worst enemy? He may be suffering from the same illiness as his mother and has dad's addictions.
|
|
|
Post by ragincajun on Aug 11, 2007 14:56:02 GMT -5
yeah.... I don't think Frank is malicious, maybe just his own worst enemy? He may be suffering from the same illiness as his mother and has dad's addictions. Yeah maybe so, if he has taken to drinking like his dad, maybe he has killed a few brain cells. You think he would know his brother is a cop and would have a partner.
|
|
|
Post by sarahlee on Aug 11, 2007 15:06:39 GMT -5
No...see...I think Frank is not malicious, but selfish--just like all addicts, he is only thinking of himself. His needs, his thoughts, he will always come first. He couldn't appreciate the gift of the coat, the suffering of his mother, the question of Brady--he was too busy thinking about what was next for him.
|
|
|
Post by diablodeblanco on Aug 11, 2007 15:58:51 GMT -5
yeah.... I don't think Frank is malicious, maybe just his own worst enemy? He may be suffering from the same illiness as his mother and has dad's addictions. I agree, Frank is not malicious but manipulating. He is working any angle to his benefit. He is a gambling addict and needs a flow of $$ to keep him in the game. Addicts, gambling or otherwise, use whatever means at their disposal to their advantage. If Frank needs to construct a situation that will, in the end, keep him going he will exploit it. He is not an evil man, he is an addict.
|
|
|
Post by deathroe on Aug 11, 2007 17:06:59 GMT -5
I think the best explanation for the whole "partner" spiel, together with "Your brother tells me you have a girlfriend" in Endgame is the writers throwing a bone to the viewer. Not sure how I feel about that sort of thing, honestly ...
|
|
|
Post by deathroe on Aug 11, 2007 17:14:48 GMT -5
One thing that stood out forcefully to me this viewing (not that I'd ever watched it before! Oh, no! ) --was how this was just old-fashioned good acting. Rita Moreno really does have that old-time movie mystique, and everybody else was rising to the occasion. Actually, the more I think about it, the more LOCI has those old-movie tendencies ('30s or '40s noir or comedy, talky and intelligent scripts); that's one reason I appreciate it so. The wisecracking Eames of the earlier season might have been at home in a '40s movie
|
|
|
Post by Techguy on Aug 11, 2007 17:26:34 GMT -5
I also take a more charitable view of Frank and attribute his questions about "Mom's affairs"--what a loaded phrase that is--and telling Frances about Eames as more based in confusion and the effects of alchohol and drugs than any malicious or even any intentionally selfish motive.
Maybe it's naive, but I can picture 7-year old Frank taking care of 3-year old Bobby when Frances went off for her fateful weekend with Brady. It might have been one of the few times Frank took responsibility for anything, so I'm willing to cut him a lot of slack when assessing his motives. I probably have a more benign view of Frank because I sometimes wish I had an older brother to help me get through my own traumatic childhood. Some kids have imaginary friends, I had an imaginary older brother.
|
|